Machiavelly Institute: France's surrender

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by Shiber
France have become a feedble civilization.

"Feedible"? I have no intention of feeding French beggars.

[Shiber]

I agree, it's definitely an insult, but I'm afraid it's the best deal we can get at the moment. However, if we kill the swordsman W SW of Marseilles and the archer NW of Port Rouge they will lower the price IMHO.

[Shiber]

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
"Feedible"? I have no intention of feeding French beggars.

Whoa... where did that d come from? Thanks for the correction Ghengis.
Anyway it still came out right. Joan is feedable... to our royal lyons! I think they're done with the last gladiators we fed to them.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by Shiber


Whoa... where did that d come from? Thanks for the correction Ghengis.
Anyway it still came out right. Joan is feedable... to our royal lyons! I think they're done with the last gladiators we fed to them.

I typically ignore typos but when they actually change the definition of the word and make a comprehensible sentence..........

[adaMada]

Very interesting (and good) thread.

Added it to the Foreign Ministry Office's Current Threads Section.

-- adaMada

[Togas]

Gentlemen,

I still do not feel there is a consensus on how to resolve the war in France. I still await a PM from our Supreme Military Commander on the chance of success of continuing the war. I would like to give guidance to our President on when to accept peace terms.

Please tell me:
1) Do we end the war now and focus on buying Feudalism?
2) Do we push forward another turn or two and see if the price drops?
3) Do we raise their last two cities and then sue for peace?
4) Do we look to another civ to buy Feudalism?
5) Something else?

Your input is appreciated.

--Togas

[Aggie]

Togas it ia clear from the post he wants to continue the war, probably to raze rheims.
Aggie

[Togas]

Originally posted by Aggie
Togas it ia clear from the post he wants to continue the war, probably to raze rheims.
Aggie

And then?

What is the goal/objective at this stage in the war? Does he only want to raise Rheims? What next?

I will await his response, but in the mean time I'd like the opinion of the Institute on what the best course of action is.

--Togas

[MrWhereItsAt]

From what I have seen right now, it seems that we want at least one city in the peace deal (beyond any that we may raze or take by force), and we will push heavily for Feudalism, though it seems very unlikely we will get any good deals there.

Jean is being a right possessive little b*tch about it all, and refusing to submit (now THERE's a sight ), so I think we can't ask for much more than this, and with Avignon (new capital) so far off, we may have to end the war very soon.

[BigFurryMonster]

What has the location of the capital to do with our objectives?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
From what I have seen right now, it seems that we want at least one city in the peace deal (beyond any that we may raze or take by force), and we will push heavily for Feudalism, though it seems very unlikely we will get any good deals there.

Jean is being a right possessive little b*tch about it all, and refusing to submit (now THERE's a sight ), so I think we can't ask for much more than this, and with Avignon (new capital) so far off, we may have to end the war very soon.

She still has forces in the field. We must defeat them, then she will be more malleable.

BTW, shouldn't we have our elites moving with the combat stacks? Better chance of leader generation that way.

Also, shouldn't we have more spear in French territory? Better to defend a sword stack with a spear than a sword.

My $0.02, and that's prolly what it's worth since I haven't been paying close enough attention.

[Robber Baron]

We might not get much in the way of cities. But we have to extract tech from the French, IMO. I say we keep grinding on with this war, until they turn over Feudalism. Techwhoring is becomig more difficult, and we have to maintain something like tech parity.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by BigFurryMonster
What has the location of the capital to do with our objectives?

Well, the more we take their capital, the crappier cities they are left with (and hopefully the more inclined they are to a favourable peace - favourable to US of course). Avignon is over a tonne of mountains from our current troops and we could not easily sustain the war beyond its present extent. By the time we reach Avignon we might be in severe trouble elsewhere, with no quick way for these troops to help out at home.

[Shiber]

My humble opinion is as follows:
First, all thoughts of taking the miserable towns the French are offering instead of Feudalism seem absurd to me. Those towns are hardly of any use to us and we can conquer them later in a 2nd campaign, whereas Feudalism is much more important. Feudalism will finally give us the ability to garrison our border towns with strong units. Furthermore, it will put us 13 turns ahead research-wise and will put us one step closer to chivalry.
Some people have raised an eyebrow when they realized that Joan will still not settle for less than 256 gold for Feudalism even if we throw in a RoP as well. Many are saying that this offer is "an insult". I ask you to be rational and realize that middle ages techs cost a lot more than ancient ages techs do. The other civs want all our money and some gpt in exchange for Feudalism, so I don't think a mere lump sum of 256 gold is an insult. Furthermore, I don't think we have a choice: we MUST get Feudalism NOW or we'll simply be left behind! Remember: a civilization with no techs has no future.
Now, some people have suggested that we destroy Rheims and then return to the negotiations table and see if Joan has lowered her price. I don't support this move because:
- We can take Rheims later, in a 2nd campaign. Destroying Rheims now will be nearly a total waste, since it will only save us 10 or 15 gold off the price of Feudalism according to my estimate. Plus, Greece is more than likely to settle there before we manage to get a settler of our own to that spot.
- We need to end this war so we can safely finish the road to Chartres and bring dyes to our new towns and wines to the rest of our empire so we can allow a few garrison units serving in Mingapulco as military police to leave their post and help protect the border towns.
- Our swordsmen in the French front are needed in the German front to help capture Hamburg.
- Continuing the French campaign means delaying the 2nd American campaign. Delaying the 2nd American campaign means giving the other AIs more opportunities to capture America's incense while we're still preparing our armies for the assault.
* To sum up: buy Feudalism from France in exchange for a peace treaty, a RoP and 256 gold. It's a great deal and we can't pass it down.

Btw, if we do continue the war then I suggest that we fortify the swordsmen outside of Marseille this turn so they'll have a defense of 3.2 (combined with the river bonus and the terrain bonus) against the French swordsman that's about to attack, thus bending the odds in our favor.

[Aro]

Shiber is right, we need Feudalism right now. We’ll be broken, but we can sell it to others, I presume, and recover some money. I support this plan.
Stop the war now!