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**adaMada** · September 1, 2002, 15:27

I think that one thing that might help shed some light on this issue is noting all the places where orders could be filed and where orders were filed -- it was clearly confusing.

First, there's the Foreign Ministry Office Threat. Generic orders are filed there, and have been so since Togas took over. http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showt...threadid=59421

Then there was the TurnChat/thread orders for 210 BC thread. Togas's orders were posted there, and can be found at http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showt...60396#1254120.

Then there's the Five Turn Plans thread, which some ministers updated to post their new orders. It seems that Togas did not post his orders there. http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showt...threadid=59544

I recall there being another thread, but can't seem to find it now.

I think the most important thing is that we do not try to blame this on any one person. These events were clearly confusing, and were the result of a set of bad circumstances mostly beyond our control. I don't think any one person is totally at fault.

The most important thing is that we come away from this with a better system, so this doesn't happen again in a situation where far more problems could be caused.

-- adaMada

**Apocalypse** · September 1, 2002, 19:28

So many problems. This one needs to be addressed now.

Originally posted by adaMada
One thing that I hope the Constitutional Convention will address is Tech Trade powers -- currently, the power is granted to the Foreign Minister but many citizens seem to feel that the Science Minister has power in this area too, which might have contributed to the confusion as Apoc came out in support of this plan. This clearly needs to be clarified. I will also push for a more formal system of submitting orderes -- right now, we have orders posted in several places, plus standing orders in some Office Threads (I know our office thread has generic standing orders). We clearly need a place where all finalized orders will be posted or sent, and any updates must be made there. That way, in a case like this, it would be easy to check if this plan had been added into the Orders.

First, I have no power in tech trades. I am just suppose to advise. I can just tell them what I think and the foreign minister is suppose to take that into consideration. I just make a post in all my orders that all trades are approved because I haven't come into any conflict with a foreign minister in neither this term nor the last. I just like techwhoring. It is clear in the constitution that I have no real power to make decisions in the tech trade though and my orders should never take precident for the foreign minister's.

I am at least thankful that this turn did not end. Before it is ending it is imparative that we switch from engineering. That was never an order. In all my ideas, I have always planned on just buying Engineering. We will research either Theology or Chivalry next though. Dora didn't get much support in the poll. I am going to post a comprehensive tech guide about the Middle Ages a little later tonight.

**adaMada** · September 1, 2002, 21:50

Originally posted by Apocalypse
So many problems. This one needs to be addressed now.

First, I have no power in tech trades. I am just suppose to advise. I can just tell them what I think and the foreign minister is suppose to take that into consideration. I just make a post in all my orders that all trades are approved because I haven't come into any conflict with a foreign minister in neither this term nor the last. I just like techwhoring. It is clear in the constitution that I have no real power to make decisions in the tech trade though and my orders should never take precident for the foreign minister's.

Yea, I understand that

. And I almost always agree with your assessment; there's almost never a problem.

Having said that, I'm not sure that everyone knows that -- the more experienced players do, but I know there was an argument over it once. It really doesn't matter at all, since you and Togas have nearly always agreed, but I think that it should be clarified -- someone in that thread should have sat up and thought "Wait a sec, Togas hasn't commented yet..." Instead, it seemed like it was already done.

Just clarifying -- I know that you and I know that, and I'm not criticizing you for supporting that plan either. I'm just pointing out that it might have been another cause of confusion, and maybe some thought should go into it.

-- adaMada

**Apocalypse** · September 2, 2002, 00:18

Honestly I hadn't read that whole Thinker's Guild thread. I didn't know if Togas posted or not. I can't really remember that far back. I just put in my input.

**Darkness' Edge** · September 2, 2002, 06:15

Originally posted by adaMada
I also share responsibility for the Foreign Ministry Issue.

I had every intention of being at the Turnchat, and had I been there I would have recognized that those were not Togas' orders.

I owe an apology to the Demo Game community -- my access to the net went down, and I didn't make the chat as I'd intended to, which meant that (persumably) there was no one to take over for Togas when he had to leave.

I, too, must share responsibility for my part in this. Of all people in the Foreign Ministry, I should have been there, and I wasn't. There's no excuse. I, too owe an apology to Togas and the community. It won't happen again.

**Vitreous Humor** · September 4, 2002, 01:22

Originally posted by BigFurryMonster
Why not post the new 210 BC save in a new thread ..?

Has it been posted anywhere? I can't find it.

Edit: Well, if I looked back on page 2 of this thread...

**MrWhereItsAt** · September 4, 2002, 10:32

Well, I just have the worst f***ing luck. I had just finished the turns and had finished the report (which I was doing in a reply window for this thread whilst playing). When I saved and exited Civ3, my computer crashed and all the sodding work wenT kaput.

Yes, well.

It is 2:30 am here and I need to be up at 7, so I will be brief.

We are now a Monarchy and have almost finished roads to Chartres and Greece. Germany was threatening with many many Swordmen near Napoleton, but that was when Munich was killed for 5gold, and Germany settled for peace for all their gold (54 or so) and about 8gpt. Persia will now settle for all their gold and as much as 11gpt, but per standing orders I did not grant them peace. German Swordsmen are starting to move out of our territory.

Shiber's manoeuvre was successful and no Galleys were lost. Uber Isle is an isthmus on what appears to be a larger landmass of grass and plains. The part closest to us has gold, a cow and a shielded grassland. I post the screenshot elsewhere. I established the embassy with the Aztecs and will post the screenshot below. They are in their GA.

Greece, Germany, Russia and I think Persia have Theology but will not sell it for blood nor money. Greece once demanded our TM and 28g, so I acquiesced as per the orders. The mapwhoring worked OK, and we got a net 20 or so gold from everyone. Many still did not have any gold to offer us.

A few of the City Planning orders were off a turn as the turn of Anarchy produced nothing, but no biggy there. I made some improvised troop movements, especially near Napoleton (look at the worker stack), and managed to save everything from marauding German and Persian Archers. Chiquita and Seeburg have been attacked, and Chiquita by the Persians.

That's all I can think of, so excuse me whilst I go and crash myself.

MrWIA.

Attached Files

banana of the egyptians, 130 bc.sav (239.8 KB, 102 views)

**MrWhereItsAt** · September 4, 2002, 10:36

Tenochtitlan, 210 BC

Does anyone know how I can post this so it isn't miniscule?

Attached Files

**OPD** · September 4, 2002, 10:39

Wow 8gpt for peace with the germans thats great. They have no back bone whatsever.

**MrWhereItsAt** · September 4, 2002, 10:44

It was pathetic. Two turns before they wouldn't talk to us. One turn before they had severly attacked Napoleton and looked ready to take it. We kill Munich and they fall over themselves to lick my boots clean.

Sad, really.

**Shiber** · September 4, 2002, 10:55

What a peace deal with the Germans! I must say I'm surprised, as well as delighted. Bismarck turned out to have the backbone of a jellyfish.

MrWIA, regarding the screenshot: any pic that exceeds the limits of (I think) 600 by 600 pixels is reduced in size. However, you can cut out the most important parts of the screenshot (the city view and the part that shows income and production) and turn them into two separate images and then post them.

**OPD** · September 4, 2002, 11:06

Just looked at the save and things are looking really good.

Everythings looking great.

**GodKing** · September 4, 2002, 11:15

Good job mr. president.

**Aro** · September 4, 2002, 11:19

I second this. Really good job, Mr. President!

**WhiteBandit** · September 4, 2002, 12:46

Yes! (No chance to look at the save yet), but it appears as if our plan to save Napoleton worked eh? :-)

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Next Turnthread/chat Times and Current Reports: term III part two (MrWIA back)

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