The Presidency of Apolytonia (Campaign Thread)

[Ninot]

I think relocation of the capitol will eventually be the best idea. But before we have any ideas of doing so, we must ensure that we have a nice place to move it to that wont be boxed in (if that happens, we have more war to get to, eh?).

I think Apolytons current place is pretty bad. To not move it is a bad idea in the long run. But i think we must secure our nations place in the world first, and THEN think of streamlining things by relocation. I dont picture such a thing happening in this upcomming term tho.

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Robber Baron
I particularly appreciate the fact that the communication issue is on the table here. Competence and skillful planning represent important facets of the President's job. But communicating the game to the citizenry in a way that brings it alive is equally important. Trip started nicely in this regard -- his website is a great tool (though now it's out of date ) And he's given a lot of time to the forums.
We need that effort to continue.

I appreciate your views of my efforts. Should I be elected, I promise everything that has been previously, will be over the next term as well. I plan on updating the site once Linney updates me more on what went on while my internet was down. Sorry about that.

Where do each of you stand on relocating our capital?

I feel that eventually, once we have more cities, and more of the jungle cleared, then a capital relocation will be necassary. However, I don't see that issue coming up during the next election. But if it does, then I feel that the jungle must be cleared and a firm infrastructure erected first, before such a consideration is considered.

[Ninot]

I just do it because as President, I fell I should. Being President gives me the initiative to get things done when otherwise, others wouldn't be able to.

So, in a way, you admitt that any other motivated person could accomplish the communitave tasks you have done (which are, i must admitt, VERY well accomplished).

All I am getting at, for the common apolytonian to realise, is that as president, I aswell could do just what Trip has done. All it takes is the job title and motivation.

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Ninot
So, in a way, you admitt that any other motivated person could accomplish the communitave tasks you have done (which are, i must admitt, VERY well accomplished).

All I am getting at, for the common apolytonian to realise, is that as president, I aswell could do just what Trip has done. All it takes is the job title and motivation.

Could they? Of course. Have they? No.
So far, the President has. And the reason that's been happening is because of my incredible motivation to help set this game up and get things going, and my ability to use that motivation through my office. I've used my title to help get things done. If anyone could have done the things I've done, then why didn't you opt to do that kind of stuff the first month?

[Robber Baron]

Here's another question:
Is it important to have both the UFC and the DIA points of view represented in the ministry at the highest levels. Do both of you feel you're good at working constructively with the other side? Trip, has having a DIA vp worked well? What would happen if one party captured both offices, plus most of the others?

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Robber Baron
Here's another question:
Is it important to have both the UFC and the DIA points of view represented in the ministry at the highest levels. Do both of you feel you're good at working constructively with the other side? Trip, has having a DIA vp worked well? What would happen if one party captured both offices, plus most of the others?

I feel that most ministers have been very agreeable and mature, UFC and DIA alike, which makes administrating much easier. Linney has been a lot of help ('cept for his turnchat running skills ) and I'm glad we can work well together without letting our different political parties get in the way. I feel that as long as intelligent, well-meaning people are in the ministries, their party doesn't matter as long as everyone can get along without interfering with the progress of the game.

[Ninot]

I argue that if any other person chose to be president first month, they may have had the same motivation to do such actions

I argue that, not to your offence Trip, but I think that you are not unique because you did what you did. You are unique because of your title. Many other members of the nation could have accomplished the same. They did not, that does not make them less of anything, or less of a candidate for anything. They just need the title to do what they will. As you have said, you feel it is a duty for the president to do such things. Others may feel if they were president, they would do such things, but YOU are president, so you will do such things.


As for why I did not run for President the first term, and will now?
How am I to explain why I didnt run for for president exactly? There are a number of reasons. I ran for Foreign Minister, at the drop of a hat. This was against a campaigner who was against everything I held dear in that office. And as I recall, you only applied to be a presidential candidate in the first term, AFTER i applied for Foreign Minister. When I applied, no one had applied for the Presidency yet. This is interesting.

I could have been the first applicant for president. Even before you Trip. Just check out the application we both signed onto. I didnt. You signed on first, and no one opposed you. Might I have signed on for the Presidency if I knew you would go unnopposed? Probably. Is that what I am doing now? Most likely.

Now here is a quesiton I hope you have just as much fun chewing on. If any other candidate were to oppose you NOW, would you take the very same stance on them? Would you also ask them "why did you not oppose me last month"? and would you state "I am a better candidate because I topped threads, contributed greatly to the forums and..ahem, cant say much about that guy"

i know, those quotes are ridiculous, but im makin a point.

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Ninot
I argue that if any other person chose to be president first month, they may have had the same motivation to do such actions

They may have. But there was no 'they'. That's not my fault, I can only vouch for my own actions, not those of others.

I argue that, not to your offence Trip, but I think that you are not unique because you did what you did. You are unique because of your title. Many other members of the nation could have accomplished the same. They did not, that does not make them less of anything, or less of a candidate for anything. They just need the title to do what they will. As you have said, you feel it is a duty for the president to do such things. Others may feel if they were president, they would do such things, but YOU are president, so you will do such things.

How are you unique then, might I ask? Am I unique? Maybe not.. I'm sure out of 5 billion other people we could find someone with more motivation than me. But the fact remains that I do have that motivation. And people know that. I have a month behind me to prove that.

As for why I did not run for President the first term, and will now?
How am I to explain why I didnt run for for president exactly? There are a number of reasons. I ran for Foreign Minister, at the drop of a hat. This was against a campaigner who was against everything I held dear in that office. And as I recall, you only applied to be a presidential candidate in the first term, AFTER i applied for Foreign Minister. When I applied, no one had applied for the Presidency yet. This is interesting.

I didn't ask why you didn't run for President the first month, I asked you why you didn't take the actions I inquired about. After all, if any person could have the motivation, then why does you not running for President matter...

I could have been the first applicant for president. Even before you Trip. Just check out the application we both signed onto. I didnt. You signed on first, and no one opposed you. Might I have signed on for the Presidency if I knew you would go unnopposed? Probably. Is that what I am doing now? Most likely.

As I stated before, you running for President previously is not the issue.

Now here is a quesiton I hope you have just as much fun chewing on. If any other candidate were to oppose you NOW, would you take the very same stance on them? Would you also ask them "why did you not oppose me last month"? and would you state "I am a better candidate because I topped threads, contributed greatly to the forums and..ahem, cant say much about that guy"

i know, those quotes are ridiculous, but im makin a point.

Again, the issue is not who has run for President, and who hasn't: the issue is what I have done as opposed to what others haven't done. After all, you stated that it doesn't take a person to be President in order to do the things I've done, but no one has nevertheless. Anyone with motivation is capable of such things... and yet they haven't.

[Ninot]

They may have. But there was no 'they'. That's not my fault, I can only vouch for my own actions, not those of others.

As you have stated

So far no one has said "hey, why is this guy doing all this stuff?" simply because I'm the President. They see it as an acceptable part of the job, as long as I'm fair in what I do.

If people wanted to argue that it wasnt the presidents place to do what you did, they would have. They didnt. To that effect, the PEOPLE argued you were doing exactly what you should have.

If, as Foreign Minister, I posted threads regarding issues such as ammendments having NOTHING to do with my office, does that look good? No, and such can be evidenced when a few people had choice words for Johnny when he posted a thread about the IE, when he hadnt won that possition yet.

People have felt you are doing your job. And, from that, I can logically deduct that what you have done has come to be the standard, but because no one else has done it does not mean you are the exception, it solely means you were the only President elected, as you so aptly put it when saying

But there was no 'they'

How are you unique then, might I ask? Am I unique? Maybe not

I have not stated specifically that I am unique. I will now, however, state I am unique in that my name is Ninot, i am here, occupying this space that no one else occupies. What I brought to question was "How unique is Trip for doing what he is so proud of". My theory is, you are NOT spectacularly unique for what you have done. That does not deminish what you HAVE done, but it simply states that what you have done can be accomplished by others if they are given your job, and that the tasks you have accomplished arent grounds to argue over, simply because no one has had the opportunity to hold your position other than you... as you so aptly put it:

But there was no 'they'

I Have two quotes now, both from Trip

If anyone could have done the things I've done, then why didn't you opt to do that kind of stuff the first month?

I didn't ask why you didn't run for President the first month, I asked you why you didn't take the actions I inquired about.

As you put it, no one, including me, has occupied themselves with what you did this first month, because no one has had the burden of the presidency. To be president, is to have the responsibilities you have. What you did has now become respectably known as the Presidents duties, not Trip's duties. If I were elected President, I would do the very same. Would you argue that we should NEVER vote you out simply because you have a history of doing things no one else wants to do? I argue that no one else wants to butt in on your duties, and it is undemocractic to expect to win solely because you are the only precident so far.

Again, the issue is not who has run for President, and who hasn't: the issue is what I have done as opposed to what others haven't done.

Trip, I cannot say what you have done is less worthy than it is. It has been extemely helpful. But I ask you now, Should you run unopposed because not a single person has done what you have done?

I say no! I question your thoughts here. Like i said, i think people let you do what you did because they figured "hey, hes president, must be his job". If Citizen 211 came out and did everything you did, id expect massive flaming. You were able to do such duties unopposed because of your job position. Im saying perhaps it is a rightful duty to the prez, but im also saying you arent any more speacial cuz no one else decided to jump on the train.

[Jon Shafer]

Anyone may have popped on that one faithful night, and posted all of the election threads (that got topped). As for the ammendments, it is very good of you for submitting them, but making ammendments does not a president make. As you have said, a Presidents job is to play the game.

If people wanted to argue that it wasnt the presidents place to do what you did, they would have. They didnt. To that effect, the PEOPLE argued you were doing exactly what you should have.

Interesting change of opinion there.

Okay, so now that we've established that the President does have a few jobs expected of him aside from playing the game, I simply state that I can vouch for no one but myself, since, as you have pointed out, no one has ever held this position before. I can only tell people that I plan on doing the same thing as I've done the first month. If people deem that as acceptable and desireable, then they will vote for me. If not, then they won't. Telling people "I can do something just as good as so-and-so" isn't the best agenda when you're actually running against "so-and-so".
I ask this question not as your competitor, but as a citizen of Apolytonia... unless you can do something more than the status quo, then why should I vote for you?

[Ninot]

Im gonna just quote the thing I shoulda quoted all along, just to point out i have NEVER been indecisive or wishy-washy

All I am getting at, for the common apolytonian to realise, is that as president, I aswell could do just what Trip has done. All it takes is the job title and motivation.

I posted that between the two quotes you just provided.

It was in the context that, if you did it, I can do it, and I WILL do it if elected president. And as we have come to the conclusion, it is very well the presidents duty, not just anyones

But I hope this isssue dies pretty soon. Its been beat to death.

So Im just gonna respond to your question.

I think i would make the BETTER candidate, cuz as I have stated, Not only can I do what Trip has done, but I have proven I have the innovation to go beyond that, as I proved when I popped the very first idea of a website. In the future, it is very well possible simmilar great ideas will hit me like a thunderbolt, and that is a very good reason why I will prove to be a very good president.

Also, you must not forget that the Forum aspect of the President is not the only one, and that it is not the only aspect to debate on. Although the other realm (turnchats, whatever) cant differ much in candidates, it IS something to debate.
Shall we debate it?

[jdd2007]

all these long posts are confusing me. could you each one post that sums up everything u have said?

[Ninot]

to sum up the debate?

I can do everything Trip has done, and probably more. Just because he has done it first does not mean he is the only one capable.

oh, and we established everything Trip has done is now the presidents job, not Trips speacial bonus.

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Ninot
I think i would make the BETTER candidate, cuz as I have stated, Not only can I do what Trip has done, but I have proven I have the innovation to go beyond that, as I proved when I popped the very first idea of a website. In the future, it is very well possible simmilar great ideas will hit me like a thunderbolt, and that is a very good reason why I will prove to be a very good president.

How have you proven to be better than me? Anyone can come up with the idea to have a website, you don't have to be President to do that... that's nothing particularly impressive. It was a good idea, yes, I'm not doubting that, but that doesn't instantly mean you're Presidential material you know. Any other reasons why you would be the better canidate than me besides that?

Also, you must not forget that the Forum aspect of the President is not the only one, and that it is not the only aspect to debate on. Although the other realm (turnchats, whatever) cant differ much in candidates, it IS something to debate.
Shall we debate it?

Alright. The turnchats I've hosted have gone very smoothly, and I managed to handle what occured when Skywalker went awol and the whole thing was about to end. However, I opted to continue, and we got a few more turns in. Also, my website is always updated (now that I'm back, of course ), and includes as much information as possible without being tacky or distracting. It may not be the prettiest thing (damn you Sn00py!), but it does its purpose, and that's what it was made for. My actions are proven, and accepted. What will you do that is better?

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Ninot
to sum up the debate?

I can do everything Trip has done, and probably more.

Says you.

Just because he has done it first does not mean he is the only one capable.

But it does prove that I am 100% capable.

oh, and we established everything Trip has done is now the presidents job, not Trips speacial bonus.

No need to get huffy now.

I've done a lot more than most people would. What if someone else had had the job and did less? Would that be the standard? I'm not elevating myself above anyone else who is capable of what I've done, I just think I've done more than most would, that's all. No one even ran the first time. Why? Don't ask me. Maybe they weren't willing to put the time into doing the job correctly. Maybe they couldn't. Maybe they just didn't want to do it.

Jdd2007, the entire conversation has basically been Ninot saying "I can do everything that Trip can do", while I reply "If you only do as much as I already have, then why not vote for a proven canidate instead?"