Save File for All?

[Jon Shafer]

A pity that such a great discussion is nix to the bunch of numbers at the top of the page.

If access could be limited to only to people known and trusted around here, or if that's too restrictive, for the members who have asked to be signed up, then I could be fine with that. I'm not sure how willing Gramphos might be to do something like that though, so that kind of thing may not be feasible.

As far as 'mightism', I have to say that I've seen quite a few things happen with disgruntled... uh, weirdos in my few years browsing forums, and I don't see why the possibility might not exist during the undoubtedly long time that this will be going for. I'm just trying to preserve the securty of the game... the last thing anyone serious about this wants is for the game to be ruined by one person looking at the map. I understand where you're coming from, I just feel it's a very important issue to address concerning the demo game.

[kring]

I also understand where you are coming from as well. I have installed a firewall on my computer because of hackers. Is there anything worth hacking on my computer? No, well except my Civ game LOL. If you restrict the saves to only the Pres/Ministers, then you are doing a disservice to the people. Maybe, we would see something they missed. I have that happen before when I posted (and others) a game asking for feedback. I found a Persian Galley the original person thought was Chinese; they wondered why the Persians were still in Diplomacy 1,000+ years later.

I used to think I had seen it all, but too many times since people have proved that I haven't. I appreciate that this might happen, but how many times has this site been hacked since it came out? I am sure the occasional mass spammer showed up.

I would see little point in participating if I am unable to view the map as needed. Would I play ahead? No, I didn't even reload when the Barb Galley sank my Settler Team ship early game. To me, it is a trust issue. If trust is that unsure, then there is no point in doing the game to begin with.

Institute a zero tolerance policy; and enforce it if needed. Make the consequences severe. That is how you stop most crime (and to me this would be a crime; not as bad as most, but it is our fun, he/she would be trying to mess with). This wouldn't stop the meanest person, but it would stop the vast majority.

The same kind of debate is currently going on in the USA about security vs freedom. If you lose too much freedom to security, then you risk tyranny.

[Captain]

Don't allow the save files to be open to everyone for several reasons:

1. this gives more incentive for people to try to get elected.

2. more fun. can we really trust that everything is going as well as the war minister would have us believe?

3. keeps ministers on their toes - they have to post frequent screenshots.

4. makes things more political - because there's more at stake and the possibility of corruption - such as ministers lying.

On the other hand:

We need to have a few select individuals who will act as "reporters" who will try to gain access to information. The freedom of the press will help ensure the ministers stay honest.

We'll need a large number of reporters to sift through all the save files.

I know I don't want to load up save files just to look at them and not play - so I would only look at the save files if there was any indication the nation was being derailed. checking on the sav files can be a hassle - so maybe it's fine to leave it open. most people would take the ministers at their word unless there was strong reason to doubt.

Senior bureaucrats (like the Historian and aides) should have access all the time.

[Captain]

OR...

how about letting the President and Ministers decide?
If they want to release info, good. But if not, then if the public is incensed, we'll impeach them and elect someone who WILL give us access to information.

So in wartime, it's like they shut down freedom of the press and feed us propaganda.

[Jon Shafer]

Captain, that gave me a idea.

Perhaps we could have a 'Reporter' position, who's sole job is to provide the public was as much information as possible. That would be his sole job... to let people know what's going on in as many ways as possible, as complex as people desire.

[Timeline]

Yea, I was thinking of that too and bouncing the title of "Minister of Propaganda" around in my head lol. But maybe someone who signs on as a reporter is gonna be a little more trustworthy than someone who spreads "propaganda" (which is defined as information or ideas)

[Captain]

I think an independent Reporter should be a separate position from the Ministry of Propaganda.

I'm not sure whether the Historian position will be more propaganda or neutral observer.

Also, is there any facilities for the concept of a loyal opposition? that might be interesting to have a minister whose job it is to oppose the government.

[Jon Shafer]

Clearly, such a person would have to be very well-known and trusted throughout the forum, for it would be his task to convey accurate information... I may make a poll to consider the creation of a Reporter, if people support my idea.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Trip
Captain, that gave me a idea.

Perhaps we could have a 'Reporter' position, who's sole job is to provide the public was as much information as possible. That would be his sole job... to let people know what's going on in as many ways as possible, as complex as people desire.

I do like the idea, but I prefer to have the savegamefile...

[MrWhereItsAt]

I favour that idea also, but if the poll result is for the save to be distributed (despite my and others' misgivings ), then distributed it must be.

[atawa]

I prefer the reporter.

If everyone has the .sav there is always the one **** that starts playing with unknown information.

But we are a democracy..

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
I favour that idea also, but if the poll result is for the save to be distributed (despite my and others' misgivings ), then distributed it must be.

Yes, but currently, the poll is far beyond a supermajority (67%). If so many people here agree on something which I aimed directly at this thread, then why not count it? My poll was created as a compromise, and it's showing to have results... why not count them?

[Trevman]

If we, the general populace, cannot see the game file, then what the heck would be the point. The game would be imaginary to us for all intents and purposes. If one of the general populace becomes elected, then he would have no idea of our (or maybe your) empire's history. Furthermore, their would be no reason for any of the general populace to retain interest in this project. The point of democracy is putting some trust in the people, although they may not deserve and may abuse it, it is still better then the alternative.

[Sheik]

Why dont we have the save file avaliable at any time during the game at the request of say 2/3 of the people. Or maybe the president could make the decision to release a save file if he wants to.

[-=MordeN=-]

btween terms will do good because all the time then it would lose some of the fun but between terms it lets ppl be informed and the fun stays there

O I also support that of the savegame when sth very important happens