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Maybe I'm a pessimist but I don't think thats true.
Information is more freely available, accessable and presentable. Doesn't mean it is more likely to be correct or accurate information.
In the past we had no facts, now we are awash with them - some true, some misleading. Misleading facts are often worse than none at all.
I agree that we are awash in information and that some is "true" and some is "false". It requires us to critically examine that information and to determine if what is presented is "true". In the long term, I believe this to be a better situation than the spoon-feeding of "truth" from some authority such as the church, government, or your friendly neighborhood scientist.
I sit here night after night reading the posts from the Europeans and I sometimes have to wonder if I am living in the same world as they are.
Let's start with Iraq. Europe cannot and should not blame the US for any civilian (other than the 40 killed in the bunker). Instead of blaming the US which is only 1 nation of the UN Security Council, you should place the blame squarely on Saddam Hussein. He is allowed to sell oil to pay for food and medicine. Instead he cuts off that oil whenever it suits him. The money he does raise from that oil he has used to rebuild 11 palaces, rebuild a shattered army, rebuild his chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs. Yet do you Europeans rage against him for neglecting his own people? Do you rage against him for using chemical weapons on entire villages? Or a neighbor? No you apply your rage against the Americans. How easy it is........ If you blamed Saddam you might feel you should do something about it.
Oh and by the way, do you know what companies supplied the machinery for his weapons of mass distruction programs??? I'll give you a hint... they didn't come from North, Central or South America. A couple did come from Japan. England, Belgum, Germany, France, Norway and Sweden were the biggest suppliers of fermentors (biological), high speed lathes and precision cutting (nuclear), presses (nuclear), reactors (nuclear) laboratories (chemical and biological). Gusess you feel no responsiblility for that either huh?
As for Afghanastan. Let me ask those of you from countries that don't like going beyound your boarders to deal with dictators and rogue governments a question. What do you do when the enemy hides anti-aircraft batteries in mosques. Or tanks and weapons in UN food warehouses? Or shoots at soldiers from hospitals. The Taliban did all this, but all Europe could do was castigate us for persuing these targets.
It is so easy to sit back and watch someone else take care of the bullies on the block and then criticize them for doing it.
I do not know what irritates us Americans more, the fact that you guys don't have the guts to go out into the world and take care of things on your own continent and expect us to do it for you, or the fact that you criticize us for doing it.
Let me ask you highly cultured Europeans something. Why did it take the US to get involved to stop the genocide on your doorstep (Yugoslavia). We had to intervene twice. Why didn't you guys handle this on your own?
Why did you allow the Serbs to haul off men and boys from a UN safe zone while yourpeace keepers watched them being put on buses, never to return?
Maybe the isolationists are right. Maybe we should let Europe alone for 10-20 years. Tell them tisk tisk you don't like the way we handle things you deal with your own problems.
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As do we, which is why we are not indescriminately slaughtering civilians. If we really wanted a bunch of them dead we would not have sent food and medical supplies to the refuge camps in pakistan. There would have been several million dead if that were the case, as many of them chose to leave afghanistan(very good move) in preparation for our attack. this argument is getting old, so lets switch it over to this one: Do you feel what the US did in afghanistan, and what it will do in other countries, is wrong? We can only guess that you do, but you seem to be dodging this one. If you dont, then you are complaining for the sake of complaining, if you do, you dont care about the rights of the people in these countries who are being oppressed.
About medical and food supplies... yeah... peanutbutter in Afghanistan... great help...
But you are right in stating America gave help (albeit less than it could and (I think) SHOULD be).
Saying I am against America would be going too far... I don't mind americans, they are really nice blokes, and what they do with their interior policy is their problem, not mine. BUT (you could have known that was coming ) I think the Americans are selfserving in their foreign policy. I don't mind that, well I do, burt it doesn't really bother me. What DOES bother me is the hypocrit opinion on this policy. Americans like to think of themselves as saviours of the world, or at least protectors of democracy. However, they only do things when they feel they should. That is not odd, don't get me wrong. It's just that... well let me put it this way. I was not very much surprised that there were terrorists capable of doing such a thing to the heart of Manhattan. Appaled, but not surprised.
The reaction was even more typical. Suddenly, Americans start a witchhunt for 'terrorism' all over the world. Sudden;y, Chechnia is forgotten, Israel is allowed to bomb Jenin (at least long enough to make hundreds of casualties in a very brutal way) and Hussein is suddenly unsure of his position. Yet Americans keep the death penalty (I personally think this is your own form of Terrorism. I am quite alone on this however. Please don't comment on it, unless you wantto know why), veto resolutions about a criminal court which would prohibit their ways of working, as well as diminish Israel's options to slaughter people.
Personally, the entire notion of the situation of the world is summarised in one situation in the UN.
the US where thrown out of the Human rights committee, because the UN think they have done too little to support it (Death penalty is against the Declaration of Human Rights you know(!)) and they threaten the UN with stopping their financial support to it.
And it is a perfect picture. The US owns the world, no matter what it does, and when the world gets pissed, the US simply ignores that and sails its merry course.
Now I'm not saying Europe is a saint (by all means no!) but I definitely think they are better in some ways, worse in others (their passive take on world politics being the foremost). And Europe is definitely taking a turn for the worse. Xenophobia and right wings are increasing daily, and I'm frightened. Very frightened. But man would not be man if he would not find a solution to all problems.
I'm with Beren by the way. Is there anyone who could give me some stats and numbers other than vague 'you are crazy, not so much people died' and 'no YOU are crazy, much MORE people died'
For my conclusion... a little anecdote.
Reporter reads parts of the American constitution to a Floridan Republican. He asks the Republican what he thinks it is. The Republican answers contemptfully: "commy stuff"
O tempora, o mores. How deep a good idea can fall, it is remarkable.
Originally posted by lorddread
I sit here night after night reading the posts from the Europeans and I sometimes have to wonder if I am living in the same world as they are.
Let's start with Iraq. Europe cannot and should not blame the US for any civilian (other than the 40 killed in the bunker). Instead of blaming the US which is only 1 nation of the UN Security Council, you should place the blame squarely on Saddam Hussein. He is allowed to sell oil to pay for food and medicine. Instead he cuts off that oil whenever it suits him. The money he does raise from that oil he has used to rebuild 11 palaces, rebuild a shattered army, rebuild his chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs. Yet do you Europeans rage against him for neglecting his own people? Do you rage against him for using chemical weapons on entire villages? Or a neighbor? No you apply your rage against the Americans. How easy it is........ If you blamed Saddam you might feel you should do something about it.
Agreed, as I said, one of the many weaknesses of europe. You can say a lot about America, at least it acts (sometimes and not always for the better, but still)
Oh and by the way, do you know what companies supplied the machinery for his weapons of mass distruction programs??? I'll give you a hint... they didn't come from North, Central or South America. A couple did come from Japan. England, Belgum, Germany, France, Norway and Sweden were the biggest suppliers of fermentors (biological), high speed lathes and precision cutting (nuclear), presses (nuclear), reactors (nuclear) laboratories (chemical and biological). Gusess you feel no responsiblility for that either huh?
Well, I don't. I'm not supporting the current European government. By the way, Europe is only a lackey of the US, not that makes us irresponsible
As for Afghanastan. Let me ask those of you from countries that don't like going beyound your boarders to deal with dictators and rogue governments a question. What do you do when the enemy hides anti-aircraft batteries in mosques. Or tanks and weapons in UN food warehouses? Or shoots at soldiers from hospitals. The Taliban did all this, but all Europe could do was castigate us for persuing these targets.
As the Europeans and also the US should. It is when you see as innocent people dying as 'acceptable' you are going into the wrong direction. The Taliban did so, and the US apparently did so as well. End doesn't justify means if innocent people must die (hell, we could just kill all muslims and be rid of their fanaticism while you're at it, why not?)
It is so easy to sit back and watch someone else take care of the bullies on the block and then criticize them for doing it.
I do not know what irritates us Americans more, the fact that you guys don't have the guts to go out into the world and take care of things on your own continent and expect us to do it for you, or the fact that you criticize us for doing it.
I do not criticise you for that you do something, I criticise your motives and methods. And I agree, we (THROUGH THE UN!!! <-- important! Entirely abolishing the SC, or at least partly. Alas, that will never be done.) should act more. But I would never have directly have innocent blood on my hands. I'd rather do nothing than be responsible for innocent casualties (though that is me)
Let me ask you highly cultured Europeans something. Why did it take the US to get involved to stop the genocide on your doorstep (Yugoslavia). We had to intervene twice. Why didn't you guys handle this on your own?
We actually tried, but we failed. We lack the experience, abilty unity.... you name it. We're working on it though.
No need for cynicism btw
Why did you allow the Serbs to haul off men and boys from a UN safe zone while yourpeace keepers watched them being put on buses, never to return?
Maybe the isolationists are right. Maybe we should let Europe alone for 10-20 years. Tell them tisk tisk you don't like the way we handle things you deal with your own problems.
Actually, Europe itself is quite stable, this is the Balkans you're talking about. And even more actually, the Balkan has always been a mess (heck, I'm from the Balkans, I should know). Europe would be fine without the US. Apparently you have not really dug deep into EU history, have you?
the US where thrown out of the Human rights committee, because the UN think they have done too little to support it (Death penalty is against the Declaration of Human Rights you know(!)) and they threaten the UN with stopping their financial support to it.
And Eddin, who replaced America on the UN's High Horse for Human Rights? Have you looked at their human rights record? I didn't think so.
Oh and by the way, maybe you can answer the question that I have asked of your fellow countryman.
Whay did your peace keepers allow 4000 men and boys to be hauled away to be executed by the serbs from a UN safe zone? Since you are from such a civilized country, this makes no sence.
Because the chain of command had a catastrophic failure. Namely those in command didn't tell the soldiers on the ground what to do. Depth of juristiction, purpose of mission and level of acceptable force to use, were not discussed beforehand.
It caused many Dutch government ministers to become ex-ministers, for their ineptitude.
One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.
that I'll be reading everything that's been mentioned on this threead before.
Three weeks ago it was the first time that I visited 'Civilizations' forum and I read many pages from this thread and then quit ...
there was nothing new under the sun, I suppose.
I remember a couple of months ago I was posting on a general forum, but stupid me, I had the 'guts' to post some criticism on some of America's politics ...
a couple of hours later the Americans 'attacked': accusing me of being another America basher and so forth and so on ...
(I'm NOT, got me?)
Those repeated acts of severe subjectivity when reflecting on their own (especially foreign) politics (eg Kyoto protocol) seems to prove a general European feeling that Americans are very good in criticizing every- and anyone on this globe, except for themselves, that is.
My fellow friends, dear Americans, you shouldn't take words/thoughts/feelings/expressions of criticism as personal insults, like many of you seem to do. That's just way too simplistic and only points out a certain lack of debate culture ...
Al Gore, where are you? Many of us (other and EQUAL human beings on our world) would just love to see you where you should have stood if not for fraude and 'friendly politics' by your former adversary ...
YOU wouldn't have acted so selfishly regarding eg the Kyoto protocol ...
at least, I hope.
I'm wandering off I guess.
I've just wanted you guys to know that I'll be reading these posts from now on, only intervening in a such objective manner as possible ...
just trying to be
FAIR
AJ
PS: Nederlanders, jullie meningen heb ik in het verleden ook al meermaals geuit. Ik ben blij dat er nog andere 'overtuigde' verdedigers bestaan van enkele aspecten van het Europese gedachtengoed. Eendracht maakt macht (zoals een bekend gezegde in België luidt )
PPS: Just greeting some of my European neighbours (the Dutch in particular)!
" Deal with me fairly and I'll allow you to breathe on ... for a while. Deal with me unfairly and your deeds shall be remembered and punished. Your last human remains will feed the vultures who circle in large numbers above the ruins of your once proud cities. "
- emperor level all time
- I'm back !!! (too...)
Originally posted by AJ Corp. The FAIR
NO WAY
( Al Gore, where are you? Many of us (other and EQUAL human beings on our world) would just love to see you where you should have stood if not for fraude and 'friendly politics' by your former adversary ...
YOU wouldn't have acted so selfishly regarding eg the Kyoto protocol ...
at least, I hope.
I shudder at the thought of Al Gore being our president when the WTC's were attacked. His first action would have been to take a poll. Then another. Then go on TV and blame the buildings engineers for all the polution that was caused when they collapsed. Then MAYBE fired a cruise missile or two (like his predecessor). America's position in the world would have been even more damaged. But at least the Afghani people would have been safe for the Righteous Taliban regime to persecute and kill.
I wondered when one of the Green Europeans would bring up the Kyoto treaty. Let me educate you why the US backed out of it. To put it simply, it was flawed badly. It let developing countries like India dump more pollution into the atmosphere in 1 year than the US produces in 10. It took no notice of natural pollution such as from farm animals. (laugh if you will but the UN did a study and found that sheep in Australia produce more greenhouse gases than the pollution produced by its people.)
The KT did nothing to stop the deforrestation of the Amazon or Indonesia. The KT imposed penalties on the US for its amount of automobile pollution but did not take into account the size of the US compared to other nations.
If you were the president and told that you had to cut 20-30% of your automobile exhaust in 10 years or face billions in fines what would you have done, taking into account there are 130,000,000 cars in the US.
The treaty looked good on paper but it was absurd to think the US could implement it. It was another Clinton photo op.
It is so easy for a continent the size of the United States to criticise us. It is so easy for countries who have almost no industry anymore to criticize those of us who are heavily industrial. When you start building your own cars, computers, furniture, textile, farm equipment, bulldozers, trains, planes etc. then you can criticize us. (Of course this isn't directed to France or Germany, they actually produce things other than tulip and chocolate)
Knowledge is a dangerous thing, especially when used incorrectly.
"About medical and food supplies... yeah... peanutbutter in Afghanistan... great help... "
I dont care if they didnt get their favorite junk food to eat, the point is there werent mass civilian deaths as a result of our action.
"But you are right in stating America gave help (albeit less than it could and (I think) SHOULD be)."
few died, we achieved our goals, how much more then that is there?
"Saying I am against America would be going too far... I don't mind americans, they are really nice blokes, and what they do with their interior policy is their problem, not mine. BUT (you could have known that was coming ) I think the Americans are selfserving in their foreign policy. I don't mind that, well I do, burt it doesn't really bother me. What DOES bother me is the hypocrit opinion on this policy. Americans like to think of themselves as saviours of the world, or at least protectors of democracy. However, they only do things when they feel they should. That is not odd, don't get me wrong. It's just that... well let me put it this way. I was not very much surprised that there were terrorists capable of doing such a thing to the heart of Manhattan. Appaled, but not surprised. "
Of course we are looking out for our own interests, everyone is and has the right to do so.
"The reaction was even more typical. Suddenly, Americans start a witchhunt for 'terrorism' all over the world. Sudden;y, Chechnia is forgotten, Israel is allowed to bomb Jenin (at least long enough to make hundreds of casualties in a very brutal way) and Hussein is suddenly unsure of his position. Yet Americans keep the death penalty (I personally think this is your own form of Terrorism. I am quite alone on this however. Please don't comment on it, unless you wantto know why), veto resolutions about a criminal court which would prohibit their ways of working, as well as diminish Israel's options to slaughter people."
terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objects.
Nice to get that definition out of the way. We are not, and can not be terrorists by exercising our rights as a nation. And some people are so bad that they have to be terminated to make society safe. What if a violent criminal escapes and kills again?
and this "well as diminish Israel's options to slaughter people."
huh? how does this figure into your argument? we want a temporary stop in the violence so we can eliminate some despotic governments in that region of the world, this isnt being hypocritical, its thinking about the larger picture. If Iran were out of the way, and saddam couldnt pay terrorist bombers, then things would improve for both sides in Israel.
"Personally, the entire notion of the situation of the world is summarised in one situation in the UN.
the US where thrown out of the Human rights committee, because the UN think they have done too little to support it (Death penalty is against the Declaration of Human Rights you know(!)) and they threaten the UN with stopping their financial support to it."
And when we do not support the UN it flops over and dies. Look at east Timor, and my reference to it in my earlier post. Yet ANOTHER slaughter you europeans LET happen. Good job guys.
"And it is a perfect picture. The US owns the world, no matter what it does, and when the world gets pissed, the US simply ignores that and sails its merry course."
? examples of this? is this another one of those "damn those isolationist imperialist bastards" post? Why should we care if the world gets pissed, more evil has come out of Europe then will ever come out of America, with nazism and Marxism being but 2 examples of the many.
"Now I'm not saying Europe is a saint (by all means no!) but I definitely think they are better in some ways, worse in others (their passive take on world politics being the foremost). And Europe is definitely taking a turn for the worse. Xenophobia and right wings are increasing daily, and I'm frightened. Very frightened. But man would not be man if he would not find a solution to all problems."
Conservatism is evil... k...
"I'm with Beren by the way. Is there anyone who could give me some stats and numbers other than vague 'you are crazy, not so much people died' and 'no YOU are crazy, much MORE people died' "
Beren's sources are third hand Al Jazeera rantings, very accurate... More to the point, what does it matter, Ill point you back to my first post on this issue..
"In both cases, Iraq and Afghanistan, those civilians that died did so because they chose to remain in these countries, even when the shooting started. No where in the Quran does it state that you have to remain in one place, and indeed it states to the contrary that if you do not like where you are there is no reason why you should not leave. God states something to the effect of "My earth is vast". And when you have over a months warning that a devistating attack by a bunch of really, really angry people will be happening, there is no excuse."
Not because we targeted them.
"For my conclusion... a little anecdote.
Reporter reads parts of the American constitution to a Floridan Republican. He asks the Republican what he thinks it is. The Republican answers contemptfully: "commy stuff"
O tempora, o mores. How deep a good idea can fall, it is remarkable."
There are communists in the united states, being the only place in the world that hasnt suffured under some form of communist oppresion this is quite natural. How is putting all the power into one or two hands a good idea? All Das kapital is is a RANT, he is *****ing about problems, which is quite easy as you can no doubt attest, coming up with solutions is quite a bit more difficult then that. Plus bashing commies is good and gets you votes :P
Originally posted by lorddread
...
It is so easy for a continent the size of the United States to criticise us. It is so easy for countries who have almost no industry anymore to criticize those of us who are heavily industrial. When you start building your own cars, computers, furniture, textile, farm equipment, bulldozers, trains, planes etc. then you can criticize us. (Of course this isn't directed to France or Germany, they actually produce things other than tulip and chocolate)
...
I don't know whether you realize, but the EU actually IS as/more industrialized than the USA ... and we have started building everything you've mentioned ages ago, haven't we? Yet, we were willing to go along with Kyoto. One of the problems is that oil/gasoline is so cheap in America and thus is overconsumed there, causing many environmental problems.
Do you know the calculations about the pollution produced by a single American compared to a single person any other country on this planet??? Yes, we Europeans pollute a lot as well, but at least we were committed to act.
What does this tell you? All world acknowledges things must be done and ONE COUNTRY backs down and makes the agreements become worthless.
But, point taken, at this moment I'm not that informed about the Kyoto report myself, so I'd better lay off.
Kind regards, though
AJ
PS: I agree with you on Gore PERHAPS not being the best option to deal with terrorism/WTC (but we don't know do we?, Bush himself also had some time to reflect upon his strategy before he spoke the country)
PPS: Al Gore WAS the elected president, not Bush (he pushed the courts, but after all votes were counted days later, Gore had more votes than Bush !!)
PPPS: Peace to all peoples
edit:
PPPPS: Gore makes you laugh, well, umm, ..., Bush makes me cry
(I would love to see him acting side by side with Ronald though
" Deal with me fairly and I'll allow you to breathe on ... for a while. Deal with me unfairly and your deeds shall be remembered and punished. Your last human remains will feed the vultures who circle in large numbers above the ruins of your once proud cities. "
- emperor level all time
- I'm back !!! (too...)
Al Gore WAS the elected president, not Bush (he pushed the courts, but after all votes were counted days later, Gore had more votes than Bush !!)
FOR THE RECORD THE ABOVE SATEMENT IS WRONG. 14 news orginzations from around the US retallied the Florida vote. Do you know what they found, Bush won the state by 230 votes. Only in 1 senario did Gore win, but it would have been against the Florida law.
Gore DID win the popular vote by a couple hundred thousand, but in this country that won't get you elected. We have the Electoral College here in the US which prevents people like Gore winning 7 states and taking the election. You must win a majority of the Electoral Votes (which Bush did). Bush won 43 states. That should tell the Europeans something about our country. The US in not a leftist country like most of Europe is. We are a capitalistic country not socialist. The are 7 states that are socialist in our country out of 50.
To suprise of many here, I agree with some of Gore's enviromental positions. It is the one area where the Republican (right) Party is wrong in. I do not believe though that the Democrats (leftist) are correct in all their positions though.
Is we had a third party here in the US that was pro business and pro enviroment - I would belong to it.
I would also like another treaty similar to Kyoto but fair to everyone. One that tells ALL nations that they should reduce pollution, not just some.
PS: Is there any French people here? Can someone tell me why the tail section is falling off all the Airbuss 300's?
And Eddin, who replaced America on the UN's High Horse for Human Rights? Have you looked at their human rights record? I didn't think so.
It is quite some time ago, and I forgot, but it shall probably not have been a very good country. But that is not even relevant, you should understand.
Oh and by the way, maybe you can answer the question that I have asked of your fellow countryman.
Whay did your peace keepers allow 4000 men and boys to be hauled away to be executed by the serbs from a UN safe zone? Since you are from such a civilized country, this makes no sence.
Oh shut up! We make mistakes, we lack will and training, we lack everything a policing power needs, I admitted that as a fault of the EU, and of Holland in particular. I am ashamed, but what can I do? I can't vote, I am a minor. I can do little right now... what do you want me to do? I can do little more but apologise, admit my faults.
But you sicken me. Pointing at other peoples mistakes and defending your own. You have done equally bad things. He who claims America is rotten is not dumb, but he who claims that Europe isn't IS dumb, we are nearly as rotten as you are, if not more so for the fact that we are your lackeys, and do not stand up for ourself.
But you should notice that I am ashamed of our policy, but I find your attitude sickening, for the fatc that you wont be ashamed... you are proud of your what you do, and that sickens me.
And as I understand it, it sickens many other besides.
Originally posted by Eddin
It is quite some time ago, and I forgot, but it shall probably not have been a very good country. But that is not even relevant, you should understand.
Sudan replaced the US on the UN Human Rights Commission. A country that still practices slavery, murder of its citizens because of their religion, drug smuggling, torture, money laundering and murder of foriegners. Yeah good choice huh?
Europe is not a US lackey. We can't stand many of the policies of your governments, nor can we understand how as a group you stay together. You are as difficult for us to understand as we are to you.
But you sicken me. Pointing at other peoples mistakes and defending your own. You have done equally bad things. He who claims America is rotten is not dumb, but he who claims that Europe isn't IS dumb, we are nearly as rotten as you are, if not more so for the fact that we are your lackeys, and do not stand up for ourself.
I am sorry you feel ill because I defend what my country feels it must do because others in the world won't. When you get a little older (out of college and into the real world of the job and family) your opinions will change. It is good to be an idealist when you are young. It helps you develop goals you wish to accomplish as an adult. But please don't criticize me because you don't like my country. I do not bash any other country, but I will point out that no country is entirely blameless today.
I am terribly proud of my country and what it stands for. Many nations in Europe beat immagrants, we accept everyone. You have quotas for how many from this country or that, you let in. We do not. People from 83 nationalities worked at the WTC towers. I have neighbors from Azerbijan. Friends at work from Mongolia. I have worked for Russian bosses. Our third largest ethnic group is Latino.
Our constitution is copied and forms the basis for 19 other countries. Our dollar is the world benchmark for currancy.
We are the worlds largest exporter and importer. Our schools train the best doctors in the world. Engineers come from India, China, Germany, France, Brazil etc, to come to schoold here and then stay here and work (although a lot of Indians are going home to the Asian Silicon Valley).
I will admit that many of our policies especially in the 80's and in Central America sucked and were wrong. But just because you don't agree with our policies do not mean they are wrong.
Finally, why should our country or any country have to ask another country's permission to exercise its authority and fullfill its duty to its citizens in time of war and need. If the world does not have the will to fight terrorism, does that mean we shouldn't?
PS: I would like to know what policies you find sickening. The only policy I have heard in this thread so far was our backing out of the Kyoto treay. Which I explained why we did it.
Bring me examples of our flawed policies and I will discuss them with you. BUT get your facts straight first. Too many people here throw out wrong facts and then expect others to refute them!
) I think the Americans are selfserving in their foreign policy. I don't mind that, well I do, burt it doesn't really bother me. What DOES bother me is the hypocrit opinion on this policy. Americans like to think of themselves as saviours of the world, or at least protectors of democracy. However, they only do things when they feel they should. That is not odd, don't get me wrong. It's just that... well let me put it this way. I was not very much surprised that there were terrorists capable of doing such a thing to the heart of Manhattan. Appaled, but not surprised. 
there was nothing new under the sun, I suppose.
...
Knowledge is a dangerous thing, especially when used incorrectly.
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