Stop the America-bashing!

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Ironikinit
Anyway, yanks have plenty of inventions and scientific developments and the Nobels to show for it. Plus the culture doesn't put me to sleep. The rest of the world, IMVHO, often SCREWS UP American cultural developments, such as comic books, rock and roll, or pulp fiction by combining them with high art or middlebrow pretense... and then we yanks make the collosal mistake of imitating the imitation.

SEE ALSO: The Monkees.

Wait a second. You seem to suggest that the Beatles screwed up American rock and roll and then, in imitiation of the imitation, the Americans created The Monkees.

I'll agree with The Monkees bit, but you can't be serious about the Brits screwing up Rock and Roll.

[petey]

America bashing is fun

In the real world, everyone bashes America because it's bigger and stronger and acts the way everyone else's societies would and have done if and when they were in the same situation - including whatever culture you, the reader, are from. Get over it already.

In games terms, however, start as the Iroquois. You're generally right next to the Americans, who build a lot of cities and are weak militarily early on. Get your Mounted Warriors to roll through their territory - they can't stop you and you can just decimate them without any resistance to speak of.

This type of America bashing is, IMHO, the funnest way to start a game and I recommend it to all of you

[easthaven]

Can't we all just get along? I mean, most of the posts I've read(I didn't read all of it, there was a hell of a lot) there was a biased opinion, and well I have a biased opinion too so don't feel bad.

Sorry if I'm alittle late on this specific topic.
In WW2, Russia, Britian, and the USA had their significant contributions that helped win the war. And the majority of the Americans I see, know the accomplishments of Russia, Britian and USA. To say that all americans are arrogant and ignorant is an ignorant statement stated by an ignorant person. In the most simplest terms that an American knows about the war is that the Russian gave the men, the British gave the allies time, and the Americans gave the allies equipment.... and well......men too. The war would have lasted years and years longer if Britian failed to hold the British Isles. And if Russia wasn't fighting on our side the war would have also lasted many more years. And if the Americans didn't provide the war materials to both Russia and Britian then both probably wouldn't have held the Nazi's back as well as they did.

And to say Russia had any major contribution to the war on Japan must be mistaken. The major player in the war against Japan were the United States Marines as well as Soldiers, they fought everywhere in the Pacific and had great victories, they even fought on Chinese soil. And I won't leave out that the Australians and Kiwi's helped alot against the Japanese, they were very profesional soldiers and possibly one of the best groups of soldiers in WW2. Russia had a very small part to play in the Japanese war.

But I won't undermine the Russian accomplishments against Germany. And General Zhukov was a fantastic military commander and possibly one of the best if not the best commanders in WW2. But to say the Russians did the most is not very cool. They all did their part. The Russians were very brave soldiers but I don't think Stalin was any better than Hitler as a dictator.

In Korea, we liberated a country from communists. And many South Koreans appreciate our intervention, you can ask them. You don't even need to ask them, just look at their country and compare it with North Korea's.

Vietnam, I don't think it was a great idea to enter that war but we did......and then we left....because of the protestors and confused politicians.

Gulf War, we liberated Kuwait from the invading Iraqi's. Thats a good thing, right? We were also a few miles outside of Baghdad when the cease fire was signed, in my opinion we should have went all the way and took out Mr. Suddam Insane, but hey, its just my opinion, doesn't mean its right or wrong.

Afghanistan, I was 100% for this. And its a success. I agree with Serb's comment on how OBL wasn't the main goal here but the goal was to take the Taliban regime out of power and destroy the terrorist training camps in Afghanistan, its a first step in the war against terrorism.

Chechnya, I have to be honest, I don't know much about the history of Chechnya but if the Russians say they are terrorists maybe we should help them in the war against Chechnya, we can trust the Russians, right?


The USA is a good country, not some corrupt evil regime unleashed by the devil in an attempt to destroy the world! .....No its not, no matter how much you or Uncle Ivan want it to be so.

So stop bashing America, America is cool......I like America....America is nice to me....

Two thumbs up for the U.S. of A.!!, whooohooo
OH SAY CAN YOU SEE........

UNCLE SAM WANTS YOU!

[Beren]

Easthaven should shut up.

OK, so USA have had a few successes and are the predominant country in the world. The point is they are using double standards.
They say Iraq should accept the UN resolutions and sent in inspectors, but at the same time they say Israel can continue building on the Westbank, even though it is against UN resolutions.

They are continuantly warning Iran not to support terrorism, which they don't. They accuse Iran of helping Taliban warriors, even though Iran hates the Taliban far more than America does. The claims Iran undermines the Afghan regime have nothing to do with reality. By Bush's remarks the more conservative muslims in Iran are likely to get more power.

North Korea is accused every now and then of building nuclear weapons and each time they let inspectors come and each time the inspectors tell us nothing of this is true. American policy in Korea doesnot support peace. I quote a high South Korean ministry worker: "Sometimes we understand what happens in Pyonyang better than what happens in Washington."

Now America even has nuclear plans with Libya, Syria, Iraq, Iran, China, North Korea and Russia.
As goes for Libya: Libya is not supporting any terrorism any more. It is doing great diplomatic attempts to be finally recognized.

America will not keep its word: It promised to reduce their nuclear war heads, if Russia would. Russia did and America decided to not to destroy the missiles, breaking the agreement.
America decided to stop paying contribution to the UN after being voted out of the human rights commission on a democratic way. The American diplomat was replaced by a Swedish one.
America continously violates the human right to live.

America posed as prerequiste to an international tribunal that American soldiers could not be charged of anything.
America does only help out territory that has oil or another strategic resource. Bob Dole (presidential candidate '97) said in specific words that America would not help Kahmir, because there is no oil there.

America refuses to sign the Kyoto agreements about creating a better environment.

America only cares about things that are in their own interests.

If you loock at international treaties of the UN about weaponry, rights of countries and relations between countries and you look at which countries haven't signed it, it are always the same countries:
Iraq, North Korea, Iran, Syria, Libya AND ALWAYS USA. Maybe you can conclude that America is a terrorist state.

Maybe America should loose a few wars. Maybe then they'll be a bit less arrogant.
I live in Europe and my feelings are that America is the biggest threath to Western civilization.

[easthaven]

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize America was a terrorist state . Maybe some of you should stand up and actually take action against this "terrorist state".

And don't get so uptight man, its just a discussion.

[Beren]

Well, I'm contributing to the discussion, am I not?

I didn't mean to say America is a terrorist state, because in my opinion there is no such thing as terrorist states. I'm not completely happy that America is the most powerful country. Still it could be a lot worse...

[Dauphin]

Given the choice between the US or USSR being the world's only superpower there is no contest. However the way the US tramples over parts of the world since the collapse is troublesome.

[easthaven]

Ok, I agree the US's foreign policy ain't that great and is far from perfect. If it was up to me I'd bring many of our soldiers back home instead of having them spread out all over the world acting as police officers. But the US does do good things, I mean you can't say America is all that bad. No their not perfect, but America has done some good things in the past and present.

[Spiffor]

A small advice : do not try to argue with non-Americans about how great US foreign policy is (at least since WW2, and esp. since the Sovietic collapse). To us Europeans, an important part of diplomacy is to defend human rights, and many countries do mourn and feel guilt about their crimes of the past (slavery, nazi genocide, torture during the Algerian war etc.). The USA do not. You'll say they're not alone, Japan won't apologize officially to Korea and China, and Australia still hadn't apologized officially to the indigens.
But, contrary to Japan and Australia, the USA tries to build an image as the "good" one versus the "evil" ore the "rogue" ones. Nobody outside of America buys it : there are no rogue states, there was no evil empire, the axis of evil is completely absurd : since America needs systematically a common enemy to calm its internal divisions, it invents itself enemies : "everyone who is not with us is against us" said Bush.
Thus, America foreign policy is the one of a bully who enjoys beating countries who have no adapted arsenal against its hightech weapons (Saddam had many tanks, it did nothing against stealth fighters), while the other rich countries pay to repair the utter stupidity of many attacks : in Kosovo, the true genocide started precisely the first 3 days of bombing, Milosevic's goal before was to chase Kosovars rather than exterminate them. In Irak, the USA attacked the only state of the region, which wasn't religious (and still isn't) and was able to feed its population autonomously. The "rogue states" are simply states who don't want to obey the rules Uncle Sam dictates, and want to be independent of the "new world order". The axis of evil is a pure delirium of a fanatic, there is nothing binding countries who have nothing in common (imagining that Irak and Iran could cooperate in the military domain is as stupid as imagining USA sharing its nuclear knowledge with Castro)
Since WW2, and since the Fall of USSR, the US have done nothing in their foreign policy to be proud of. You should try to defend your country on other domains, like Dunk999 brightly did.

[dunk]

Originally posted by Spiffor
the USA tries to build an image as the "good" one versus the "evil" ore the "rogue" ones.

Sometimes, yes. I really hate that "Axis of Evil" comment. Our president is a jackass. Unfortunately, some people believe this is the only way to garner support.

Originally posted by Spiffor
Since WW2, and since the Fall of USSR, the US have done nothing in their foreign policy to be proud of. You should try to defend your country on other domains, like Dunk999 brightly did.

I disagree. The Gulf War was something I thought was a good cause (just because there was oil there, people assume that's the reason... it was in part, but not totally). I'll call Vietnam "Good Intentions". Communism frequently erodes into dictatorship, and that's what we wanted to prevent. The Korean War was the same thing, only more successful. The Camp David Peace Accords (ending one of the wars in the Middle East) by Jimmy Carter (?) was a good thing. I'll call Somalia another "Good Intentions". Ousting the Taliban was a good thing.

We aren't simply bullies looking to pick fights and show off our shiny new planes. We may select our battles to match our interests, but we don't go around shooting people for no reason.

[Serb]

Originally posted by easthaven
Russia had a very small part to play in the Japanese war.

But we played our part, we started to play it earlier then USA and we are still play it. We are still at war with Japan btw.
I've just answer to someone comment that our war vs. Japan was an opportunism and that we've not fought at all. The defeat of 900k soldiers of Qantun army in 1945 by Red army is a quite part as form me, it was not an easy walk for Red army.

Chechnya, I have to be honest, I don't know much about the history of Chechnya but if the Russians say they are terrorists maybe we should help them in the war against Chechnya, we can trust the Russians, right?

As well as we can trust to Americans.

We was the first people who unerstood what happent to you at Sept 11, because we've went through it two years ago. We clearly realise vs. whom you fight and why you make it, as I've said we realised this threat long ago. We offered to you all our help and support, and actully we grateful to you for your job in Afghanistan. Really, actully you've done our job. It should be we who should detroy the Taliban, because the Taliban and Chechen terrorists tied very close, tied as master and servant. This is the parts of one chain, one organisation.
That's what I want to say, you didn't need to convince us that the Afghanistan was the base of terrorists and that those base must be destroyed and you didn't need to proove to us that you doing a right thing, we already knew it. And now you saying that you are can't trust us. First time since WW2 we are fight against common enemy and your government know that it's true, that we both fight against Worldwide terrorism, but you portray yourself as heroes while you portray Russians as fascist nation, as monsters who opress small but pride people.
This is VERY UNFAIR.

And btw, we don't need your help in Chechnya, war there already over, terrorist bases destroyed, their forces defeated and after you defeat their masters in Afghanistan the remaining small, very small groups are doomed. Without the external support of Taliban they are nothing: no weapons, no mercenaries, no ammunition.
All we need is that you open your eyes look again with whom we've fought there and why we fought, and to start say the truth about us.

[dunk]

Originally posted by Serb
I've just answer to someone comment that our war vs. Japan was an opportunism and that we've not fought at all. The defeat of 900k soldiers of Qantun army in 1945 by Red army is a quite part as form me, it was not an easy walk for Red army.

I'll agree with that. I've been told in history classes is that one of the reasons for the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was to end the war before the Soviet Union could get too deeply involved and thus, end up splitting Japan as Germany was. There were many others, of course, such as less bloddshed and a quicker victory.

Originally posted by Serb
As well as we can trust to Americans.

Originally posted by Serb
We was the first people who unerstood what happent to you at Sept 11,

I know. Thanks.

Originally posted by Serb
but you portray yourself as heroes while you portray Russians as fascist nation, as monsters who opress small but pride people.
This is VERY UNFAIR.

Most Americans are simply less informed about the world than they should be. We always have been.

Originally posted by Serb
All we need is that you open your eyes look again with whom we've fought there and why we fought, and to start say the truth about us.

I assume you mean your invasion of Afghanistan in 1979? And I know that you're not evil.

[Arrian]

One of the reasons, in my opinion, for much of the anti-USA feeling in the world is the "holier than thou" attitude our government takes. The "Axis of Evil" line is a perfect example of this. Our leaders often talk as if the USA is perfect, while it is patently obvious that it's not. That pisses people off - myself included - because nobody likes a hypocrit. The rhetoric fools no one.

The tragic part, in my view, is that there are a lot of wonderful things about the USA, and we have some truly great principles... which the powerhungry, myopic morons that run the place constantly ignore. And the vast majority of Americans are not only ignorant of the world, but of their own country and its leaders. Our politicians get away with all sorts of things because no one cares enough to pay attention.

Serb,

I would like to second dunk999's comment - I know you (Russians) are not evil. I never thought you were. I'm not too fond of your former government, but I don't think "evil" is the proper word for it, and neither is "fascist." Thankfully, however, it is your former government.

-Arrian

[Serb]

I assume you mean your invasion of Afghanistan in 1979? And I know that you're not evil.

No, actually I’ve mean 1999 and our second campaign in Chechnya. I’ve really didn’t mean to defend our invasion in Afghanistan in 1979, I think it was mistake of our former government. That war give us nothing only troubles, it was silly attempt to spread communistic ideology on new territory. Our second campaign in Chechnya has nothing common with it, because it is the attempt to defend ourselves from constant terrorist attacks- the same what you are doing now in Afghanistan. That’s what I’ve mean.

I'm not too fond of your former government, but I don't think "evil" is the proper word for it, and neither is "fascist." Thankfully, however, it is your former government.

Arrian,
I'm not a admirer of communists government by myself, but the problem is that many people still portray us as enemies, as we are the ones who treating the world. Look in what type of company your generals placed us in your nuke doctrine for example. I have debate about Chechnya in offtopic forum and someone gave me a link to one article. When I’ve read that article, I was stunned. That article contained too many lies. It portrayed one side of conflict as honorable heroes while it portrayed Russian army as Nazi. There was no single mention about all those terrible, cruel atrocities those terrorists done to our population. The people who could read that article might think what Russians are cruel monsters, a fascists who trying to hold its territories through oppression. And I am sure it is not a single anti-Russian article, this what I’ve wanted to say- your (western) mass media do not telling the truth about what’s going on there, they do not tell that in Chechnya we fought with the same terrorists as you fight in Afghanistan now, not locals, but well trained, professional terrorists.

[Serb]

I assume you mean your invasion of Afghanistan in 1979? And I know that you're not evil.

No, actually I’ve mean 1999 and our second campaign in Chechnya. I’ve really didn’t mean to defend our invasion in Afghanistan in 1979, I think it was mistake of our former government. That war give us nothing only troubles, it was silly attempt to spread communistic ideology on new territory. Our second campaign in Chechnya has nothing common with it, because it is the attempt to defend ourselves from constant terrorist attacks- the same what you are doing now in Afghanistan. That’s what I’ve mean.

I'm not too fond of your former government, but I don't think "evil" is the proper word for it, and neither is "fascist." Thankfully, however, it is your former government.

Arrian,
I'm not a admirer of communists government by myself, but the problem is that many people still portray us as enemies, as we are the ones who treating the world. Look in what type of company your generals placed us in your nuke doctrine for example. I have debate about Chechnya in offtopic forum and someone gave me a link to one article. When I’ve read that article, I was stunned. That article contained too many lies. It portrayed one side of conflict as honorable heroes while it portrayed Russian army as Nazi. There was no single mention about all those terrible, cruel atrocities those terrorists done to our population. The people who could read that article might think what Russians are cruel monsters, a fascists who trying to hold its territories through oppression. And I am sure it is not a single anti-Russian article, this what I’ve wanted to say- your (western) mass media do not telling the truth about what’s going on there, they do not tell that in Chechnya we fought with the same terrorists as you fight in Afghanistan now, not locals, but well trained, professional terrorists.