4 Unique units I'd like to see

[sachmo71]

The US UU should have been a beefed up Infantry (representing better equipment, etc.) or a beefed up Marine (go ask any Marine who the toughest soldiers in the world are, they will be happy to tell you.) None of the other ideas are bad, it would just be hard to get a leader or golden age out of the UUs.

I have to disagree with whomever it was that said the panzer was the most dangerous weapon for the Germans in the war. The submarine almost won both WWI and WWII for the Germans. The panzer helped knock France out of the war, but remember at this time most of the German army was still using horses for transport. If not for a series of lucky breaks against the U-Boats (see enigma), many argue that England would have been out of the war within 6 months. Also, the entry of America into the war helped turn the tide in the Atlantic. So, I could see a case being made for the U-Boat, but I LOVE the panzer so I would want to keep it.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by sachmo71

If not for a series of lucky breaks against the U-Boats (see enigma),

Some luck, some break:

https://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4040/bombe.html

https://www.turing.org.uk/turing

http://encyclozine.com/Technology/Computers/Turing

https://www.wps.com/texts/enigma-review.html

https://www.bath.ac.uk/~ns0mar

https://www.math.arizona.edu/~dsl/enigma.htm

[sachmo71]

Hey, thanks for the links! Great stuff!

[Elucidus]

Originally posted by spiky82

nehow, regarding the american CSU, someone mentioned that the F-15 is gonna be obsolete pretty soon....and he/she is right.
what i wanna know is why firaxis decided to take out f-22 outa game (civ2 stealth fighter)...i 4 one think that F-22 should be the new CSU for the Americans as soon as the graphic/animations editing becomes possible...

I have to agree with spikey on this one. The F-15 is pretty much everywhere. Anyone with any money has one nowadays. The F-22 was in Civ2. The main reason I think it wasn't included is because then the US would have the only UU that does not become obsolete. And that would be a major factor with game balance.

I just think something better than the F-15. A battleship could work...though I'd still love to see a fair way to include the F-22.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by dexters
I agree however that in the area of naval superiority, the United States of America's unique unit should be there. It has essentially ruled the seas since World War 2, with American ships outclassing the other two major naval powers of the time, Japan and England. And of course, we all know the devastating toll the US Navy inflicted on the Imperial Japenese Navy.

The U.S. has been world class in the navel department since the begining of the 19th century. When the army was starving for equipment and funds the navy was getting first rate ships in reasonable numbers. During the war of 1812 the British lost so many frigites in 1 on 1 fights against U.S. frigites that the Admiralty office actually sent out orders that no British ships are to engage American ships unless they had a 2-1 advantage.

The U.S. also built the worlds first Iron clad and the worlds first steam powered ships. The Yankee Clipper ships of the 1880's were the fasted ships afloat and one of the best armed. The British didn't really outclass the Americans until they developed the Dreadnaught class two decades later.

[Dinner]

Speaking of the F-15 has anyone noticed that the icon used in civ3 is nothing like an F-15. The picture shows a plane that has two rear stablizers while an F-15 only has one. Their picture looks more like a F-16 or F-14.

[Elucidus]

Um, F-15s have two, the F-16 is the one with only one. Here visit this URL . Straight from the US Air Force, picture and description. Not trying to be a turd, BTW.

[Rasbelin]

The American UU is a bit dificult one, but I would suggest a special version of Musketmen. They could be named Continentals and +1 in MP could reflect their mobility. That UU would refer to the regular troops of G. Washington in the Independece War. An another option could be the Confederates in the Civil War. But these are probably just some fairly braindead ideas...

[sachmo71]

Originally posted by dexters

I agree however that in the area of naval superiority, the United States of America's unique unit should be there. It has essentially ruled the seas since World War 2, with American ships outclassing the other two major naval powers of the time, Japan and England. And of course, we all know the devastating toll the US Navy inflicted on the Imperial Japenese Navy.

I think the Soviet Navy would have had a little something to say about that...and I still think it should be a beefed up infantry...maybe the old stand-by extra movement to simulate the added mobility US forces enjoyed (tons and tons of TRUCKS!) and maybe 1 extra attack to simulate close air support and/or large quantities of heavy artillery inherent with the US infantry unit.

[TheSettler]

Ok as for the US CSU you have to look at things differently. What is the US military most known for? It's there ability to control the skies. We have by far the most air dominant aircraft ever known to man. ( now anyway there was a time . . . ) Yes we also have a very capable navy that makes a world of difference ( just ask hitler how the US got so dang many guys over there ) But the US navy isn't what the world thinks of when they think about the US. It's the aircraft that comes to mind first. So they added something to represent that as the US CSU. I totally agree that a naval unit would have been much better but thats not what the US military is most commonly known for.

Originally posted by sachmo71
The US UU should have been a beefed up Infantry (representing better equipment, etc.) or a beefed up Marine (go ask any Marine who the toughest soldiers in the world are, they will be happy to tell you.) None of the other ideas are bad, it would just be hard to get a leader or golden age out of the UUs.

Ok now i am 100% American man, but . . .
You have to admit that the US infantry hasn't had a whole lot of experience in winning situations on there own. After all look at out last real infantry confrontation where we got stomped in Vietnam. Desert storm was won due to our aircraft blowing the hell out of them first and then sending in the infantry to get the beaten and mentally screwed iraqi soldiers after a huge amount of bombs have been dropped. Every other confrontation our infantry have had have little none traditional wars where we didn't do very good. So i think that the CSU should not be an infantry unit.

Oh and our spec. forces where basically taken from britians SAS and although they are deadly as sin i think there are better US equipment that be choicen for the role.

[Shiva]

Originally posted by TheSettler
Yes we also have a very capable navy that makes a world of difference ( just ask hitler how the US got so dang many guys over there ) But the US navy isn't what the world thinks of when they think about the US. It's the aircraft that comes to mind first. So they added something to represent that as the US CSU. I totally agree that a naval unit would have been much better but thats not what the US military is most commonly known for.

I sorry but for the past 50 years at the first sign of trouble what everyone sees is the American aircraft carrier on its way to project power in trouble spots. People seen that far more than they have seen the F-15 or any other aircraft that has been in the American inventory.

[Wulfram]

The US could have a Frigate with Privateer abilities, to represent the skill with which they harassed british shipping.

[Elucidus]

Originally posted by Shiva



I sorry but for the past 50 years at the first sign of trouble what everyone sees is the American aircraft carrier on its way to project power in trouble spots. People seen that far more than they have seen the F-15 or any other aircraft that has been in the American inventory.

What does an Aircraft Carrier carry, Submarines? He also said what do people think of not what do they see. Being in the Air Force I am a bit biased. I guess, I should step back and let you guys discuss it.

Oh well.

[TheSettler]

Yep your right the carrier is the first thing that shows up in any theater. But what is a carrier used for? Air supiority and ground attack aircraft. Once again we are at odds about the US airpower. If you take the carrier as a stand alone ship it really isn't that great. But its what it carries that makes the difference, aircraft.

[Shiva]

Originally posted by TheSettler
Yep your right the carrier is the first thing that shows up in any theater. But what is a carrier used for? Air supiority and ground attack aircraft. Once again we are at odds about the US airpower. If you take the carrier as a stand alone ship it really isn't that great. But its what it carries that makes the difference, aircraft.

As I said over the past 60 years or so the carrier has changed but it has always been there to project power. Please name me an air supiority fighter that has been effective that long. Over the past 50 years the one thing the US has done that no one else could do as well has been carrier ops. Sure other countries had carriers but none matched with our experience, skill, and shear size.

You cant say that at all with aircraft before the the fall of the USSR and even now our edge isnt that great fighter wise. Pilot wise back in the 60's and 70's Israel had for the most part equal or better pilots. And before anyone goes and says well we're better now that has to do more from our support aircraft than the fighters themselves. When nato needs tankers chances are they'll be US. When they need AWACS chances are it'll be US. When they need recon (although this is getting to be less true because of drones) chances are they'll be US. The nato countries have good fighter aircraft, what separates them from the US is the support aircraft and what we can do because of them.

Also CV's are used for Air supiority, ground attack, Anti-surface warfare, anti-sub warfare, troopstaging (see grenada, afganistan), recon, and a few others. Quite a few more than the two things you named, but then again as I said they have been at it for the past 60 years so you might have forgotten some

A UU should be something that a country is noted for and has been something special for them far above the rest of the counties, an edge. The carrier fits that for the Americans far more than the F-15 or any other aircraft does.