Expansion Pack Civ explained: Celts

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by Oerdin

I think we should make La Tene the capitol and I will change the head of state from Arthur to Vercingettorix and we can make Arthur a great general or something.

I'll agree with you on all those points, BUT have you
forgot to make me a warlord (that's the real title for it in Civ III;
read my Finnish-English translation)? The city list will be
completed today, so I'll post it later.

I am personally leaning towards Religious because it fits into what we know about the role of Druids in Celtic society and besides the Celts were never very successful at war.

I think religious is the best option. Ahh! I gotta love that druid idea.

Anyway, you're right they weren't any warmongers.
The Celts (or actually the Picts) had to move northwards, when
Ceasar pushed them back to Scotland, but the Wall of Hadrianus
is an evidence for that Rome feared for them. So they weren't
at least defenseless. Hopefully you get the point.

Lastly, what should set off the Celtic golden age?

Er... good question. Kissing the Blarney Stone?

There are no Celtic wonders of the world so how would this work?

Stonehenge
Woodhenge
Blarney Castle

[Rasbelin]

1. So we know that the leader will be
Vercingetorix and the capital is La Tene
(located in the valley of river Rhein).
But how about the UU?
I suggest Celtic Warrior, +1 in defense.

2. Here's the beta version of the city list for
the mighty Celts. I haven't found any good
sources yet, so I have listed those that
has been used before.

Civ II's Rome scenario:

(La Tene)
Galatia
Braunsberg
Milan
Numantia

Civ II - Celts:

Cardiff
Kells
Carmarthen
Armagh
Caernarfon
(Tintagel)
Caerphilly
Cork
Rhymney
Iona
Rhondda
Illauntanig
Swansea
Durrow
Merthyr
Tara
Llangollen
Dinas Powys
Aberystwyth
Rhayader
Abergavenny
Dinas Emerys
Cardigan
Llanelli
Maesteg
Neath

And now, if you, dear friend, have other
suggestions or anything related to this;
please, share your knowledge.

[Myrddin]

The city list should really reflect Celtic spelling eg
Llundain (London)
Caer Baddon (Bath)
Rhydychen (Oxford)
Caergrawnt (Cambridge)
Caeredin (Edinbrugh)
Catraeth (Catterick)
Caerloyw (Gloucester)
Caerdydd (Cardiff)
Ty Ddewi (St Davids)
Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen)
Aberteifi (Cardigan)
Abertawe (Swansea)
Bangor
Caernarfon
Castell Nedd (Neath)
Casnewydd (Newport)
Y Trallwng (Shrewsbury)

except that you end up with too many
Caer... (camp of...)
Aber.. (river mouth ..)
Llan.. (church of..)

[Rasbelin]

Thanks, Myrddin!
As you might understand, I'm not a pro in
Gaelic languages (like Welsh and Irish).

[Dinner]

I like the Celtic spelling for the city names. It gives the civ a more authentic feel instead of being simply an amalgomation of city names from countries and cultures. I will try to edit down the History section and update the civ profile with the latest information. Then we can all start critiquing the second rough draft.

[Dinner]

1st revision of Celtic Civ

Name: Celts, Celtic
Time Period: 500BC-200AD
Leader: Vercingettorix (Celtic King who fought Julius Caeser)
Unique units: Woad Warrior; a swordsman that has a +1 to movement
CSAs: Commercial and Religious.
History: This section needs to be edited down to under 1000 words. Right now we have about two pages. As soon as I get a chance I'll reedite the text and submite it for review.
Capital: La Tene
City list: Tintagel, Llundain (London) , Caer Baddon (Bath) , Rhydychen (Oxford),
Caergrawnt (Cambridge), Caeredin (Edinbrugh), Catraeth (Catterick), Caerloyw (Gloucester), Caerdydd (Cardiff), Ty Ddewi (St Davids), Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen),
Aberteifi (Cardigan), Abertawe (Swansea), Bangor, Caernarfon, Castell Nedd (Neath), Casnewydd (Newport) ,Y Trallwng (Shrewsbury), Galatia, Numantia, Kells,
Armagh, Caernarfon, Caerphilly, Cork, Rhymney, Iona, Rhondda, Illauntanig, Durrow, Merthyr, Tara, Llangollen, Dinas Powys, Aberystwyth, Rhayader, Abergavenny, Dinas Emerys, Llanelli, Maesteg.
Great Generals/war leaders: Boadicea, Arthur, Cunobelin, Vortigern, Vortimer, Aurelius Ambrosius (Romano-Briton), Uther Pendragon, Llewellyn, Gruffyd, Rhys.

Can anyone think of anything that should be changed or added?

[Rasbelin]

Re: 1st revision of Celtic Civ

Originally posted by Oerdin

Capital: La Tene
City list: Tintagel

Can anyone think of anything that should be changed or added?

Yes, Tintagel should be removed, because it's
an another name for La Tene.

[Dinner]

Re: Re: 1st revision of Celtic Civ

Originally posted by Rasbelin


Yes, Tintagel should be removed, because it's
an another name for La Tene.

opps.... hehe I guess I made a little bubu. Thanks for catching that rasbelin. That sort of thing would have been very embarassing if it had made it to the final draft.

[Myrddin]

I understood La Tene was a major Celtic archeological site in Central Europe while Tintagel was a coastal fortress in Cornwall

Some more city names

Efrog (York)
Ynys Afallon (Glastonbury) - capital if led by Arthur
Manceinion (Manchester)
Dulyn (Dublin)

[Dinner]

Celtic Alphabet

I just found out an interesting new tidebit about celtic history. It appears the Celts independently invented their own alaphabet which is known as the ogham alaphabet. Ogham was originally developed in Ireland but Scotland also developed it's own native offshot. Togeather the two alaphabets make a unique cultural contribution of the Celtic people.

Let's see if the Poles, Hungarians, or Spaniards (opps, Crown of Aragon) can claim they came up with their own alaphabet. :-)

[Rasbelin]

Re: Celtic Alphabet

Originally posted by Oerdin
I just found out an interesting new tidebit about celtic history. It appears the Celts independently invented their own alaphabet which is known as the ogham alaphabet. Ogham was originally developed in Ireland but Scotland also developed it's own native offshot. Togeather the two alaphabets make a unique cultural contribution of the Celtic people.

Interesting, Oerdin. Thanks!
But I suppose we can't get it squeezed into the EP.
Even if it would bring more depth to the Celtic civ.

[Jofre]

And "Baile Atha Cliath" (Dublin) ? It isn't in the city list!

[Dinner]

We'll make sure we get Dublin added on to the city list during the next revision. Right now I'm just giving people a little time to comment about which changes should be made, what should be included in the history section, and what the special unit should look like. Things like that.

[Va-Toran]

La Tene is a major archeological site in Switzerland, and not the same place as Tintagel.
Another city worth adding is Hallstatt, which is another very important archeological site in Austria.

[molly bloom]

Celtic wonders and suchlike

While I was pondering the subject of Celtic Wonders, I thought of the salt trade and the tin trade. The Hallstatt site/culture stems in part from salt mining/trading, and the element 'Hall' in placenames is a synonym of Celtic origin for the Germanic Salz, and thus: Hallstatt, Reichenhall, Hallein and Hall, and in Gaul, placenames beginning with 'Al', such as Alesia. Salt was a new form of wealth (hence salary, from the Latin) an essential feature for any sedentary culture, an object of long distance trade across Western and Central Europe. It enabled the preservation of foodstuffs and could be fed to cattle to strengthen them. The tin trade was with the Mediterranean, through Phoenician middlemen, and most likely in Cornwall, from, or near St. Michael's Mount, in Mount's Bay off Marazion. The island of St. Michael's Mount is accessible at low tide via a causeway.

Failing the trading option, then what about Carn Brea or Maiden Castle, or for a later Celtic golden age trigger, a scriptorium such as produced the Book of Durrow, the Book of Kells, or the Lindisfarne Gospels?

Maiden Castle:

https://www.gallica.co.uk/celts/maiden.htm

Carn Brea:

https://www.cledha.freeserve.co.uk/cbpg/

Some possibly Celtic mummies:

https://www.channel4.com/nextstep/mystery_mummies

The Celts of Northern Italy also wrote in Lepontic script, in characters derived from the Etruscan alphabet, and there's also Iberian inscriptions from Contrebia in Spain, and Gallo-Greek from Vaison-la-Romaine. Not just the Irish with the gift of the blarney, it seems.

Should Dublin really be on a list of 'celtic' settlements by the way? The area was known as dubh/dubb linn to the Celtic population, but the town grew up from a Viking longphort. As an Irish settlement yes, but not as a Celtic one, IMHO.