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Expansion Pack Civs Explained: Phoenicians and Dutch

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  • #31
    Go right ahead. I don't have a lot of time either. Contributions are always welcome.
    The Apolytoner formerly known as Alexander01
    "God has given no greater spur to victory than contempt of death." - Hannibal Barca, c. 218 B.C.
    "We can legislate until doomsday but that will not make men righteous." - George Albert Smith, A.D. 1949
    The Kingdom of Jerusalem: Chronicles of the Golden Cross - a Crusader Kings After Action Report

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    • #32
      I think we should get the Dutch into the EP.
      They had an important role in the imperialism (Indonesian islands) and the development of trade (first stock exchange, etc).

      I would prefer the Carthaginians, but the Phoenicians
      are also good enough for me.
      "Kids, don't listen to uncle Solver unless you want your parents to spank you." - Solver

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      • #33
        It's true that he was a 'great Dutch leader' but as I understand it, all Civ3's Great Leaders are supposed to be military men (generals and conquerors and stuff).
        Hmmm. Didn't somebody say that Nixon was a Great Leader in the game, some time ago? Not sure though. But if only generals/admirals/etc are considered Great Leaders than byebye for Stuyvesant. sniff sniff

        Fokker DX - one of the most used Finnish fighters
        in the Winter War, but one of the worst ones too.
        Was also able to carry a small load of bombs.
        Of course it was bad when the Fins used it! The plane was 10 years old by that time They should have purchased the more modern (and probably the best aircraft at it's time) G.V.

        One of the most famous Dutch warships of old is De Ruyter's flagship 'De Zeven Provinciën', a Ship-of-the-Line with 80 guns (1665-1694). If the name isn't already used in the game, I'd vote for simply Ship-of-the-Line (improvement over the man-of-war or frigate, whichever is in the game).
        Possible, but the English already have an improved Frigate as CU. And the Spanish and English warships of the time were at par with the Dutch designs, as far as big warships are concerned that is. How about an improved Privateer called Kaper instead? Makes more sense I think, and goes well with the Golden Age.
        Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Locutus
          The southern provinces, which are now known as Belgium, was subsequently reigned by Spain, France, Austria, France again and the Netherlands until it finally became independent in 1839."
          Wrong. We kicked the kaeskop's asses in 1830, not 1839.
          The books that the world calls immoral are the books that show the world its own shame. Oscar Wilde.

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          • #35
            Mark L,
            Nixon, a Great Leader? ROFL! Sorry, but for some reason I find that very funny. I had not heard that before but if that's true I suppose Stuyvesant could be a Dutch Great Leader (heck, if Nixon is a Great Leader, even Kok would qualify! ). Somehow I doubt it's true though...

            Dry,
            The Belgian Revolution started in 1830 but Belgium as an independent state was not recognized until 1839 (IIRC also the year in which King Leopold I was crowned).


            Anyway, below is my (complete) version of Dutch history. Next I'll focus on the Phoenicians but I'll first allow everyone some time to b*tch and moan about this summary (and get some schoolwork out of the way)



            "God created the world, but the Netherlands were created by the Dutch." Those are the words of a great French philosopher. He was talking about the continuous struggle in which the Netherlands have been involved ever since people started living there: the struggle against the sea. Half of what is now part of the Netherlands was once sea or a uninhabitable transition zone between land and sea. Originally the Dutch fought the sea by building large artificial hills ('terps') and building their houses on top of those. This method was already described by the Roman writer Pliny (the Old?) when he visited the Netherlands.

            From about 1000 AD, the Dutch changed tactics and started to build ****s to keep the water out. This process contintues until today and culminated in two enormous projects in the 20th century. One was the closing off of the 'Zuiderzee' (South Sea) by means of the 'Afsluitdijk' (Closure Dyk) and empoldering a large part of the thus created lake ('IJsselmeer' or IJssel Lake) to create an entirely new province (Flevoland). The other project was called the Delta Works; it started after a catastrophic flood in Zeeland in 1953 and it's goal was to build ****s and dams along the fragile coast of Zeeland that were so big and strong that no storm or flood could ever break them. This project was finished in 1998? with the construction of a ultra-modern, movable dam ('Stormvloedkering') in the busiest waterway in the world ('Nieuwe Waterweg').

            In ancient times, much of what is now the Netherlands was inhabited by the Frisians and the Batafs. It would be a long time before the Netherlands earned its place on the world map as a true civilization but these early tribes would play an important part in Dutch history. The resistance of the Batafs against Roman rule and the so-called 'Frisian Freedom', the Frisian values of freedom and independence, were the stuff that Dutch legends were made of and that inspired the Dutch throughout history.

            For the most part the cities and provinces in the area known as the Low Countries developed independently from the 9th through the 14th centuries. The cities in the north and east, especially the ones along the river IJssel, over time became important members of the Hanseatic League. From 1363-1472 the area was gradually assimilated by Burgundian Dukes. Eventually the lands passed by marriage to the Hapsburg Holy Roman Emperor, Charles V. Upon Charles's abdication in 1556 the lands reverted to his son Philip II of Spain. The Calvinist Dutch in the northern provinces especially disliked the Spanish Catholics. They feared the Inquisition would be brought to the Netherlands and that personal, economic and religious freedom would be lost, so they revolted. In 1567 Spain sent an army to Brussels to crush the rebellion and thus started the bloody Eighty Years War. On April 1, 1572 the Dutch struck back: with a clever deception a navel force took the city of Den Briel, an event still celebrated as April Fool's Day in the Netherlands. The revolt quickly spread throughout the north. In 1572 the provinces of Holland and Zeeland acknowledged Willem van Oranje as their Stadtholder and a government was established in Delft.

            In 1579 the predominantly Catholic southern regions of the Netherlands joined together for mutual protection under the Spanish king in the League of Arras (Atrecht/Atrois). Soon thereafter, the northern provinces united in the Union of Utrecht. The Calvinist northern provinces were collectively known as the United Provinces of the Netherlands or the Dutch Republic. These provinces were: Friesland (Frisia), Groningen, Overijssel, Holland, Gelderland, Utrecht and Zeeland (parts of Limburg and Brabant were later added to this). From the formation of the Union of Utrecht these provinces were able to remain a separate republic but it was not until the Treaty of Westphalia, at the conclusion of the Eighty Years War in 1648, that the independence of the Republic was finally recognized. The southern provinces, which are now known as Belgium (& Luxembourg), was subsequently reigned by Spain, France, Austria, France again and the Netherlands until it finally became independent in 1831.

            The 17th century was the Golden Age for the Dutch. In this period the Netherlands became the most important nation in the world: whereas the rest of Europe went into economic decline, the Dutch economy and industry boomed, cities and the population expanded rapidly, a colonial empire was built and the arts and sciences flourished. The foundation for all this wealth and prosperity was already laid in earlier centuries by the Dutch Hanseatic League cities: both before and during the Golden Age, it was trade with the East Sea that formed the backbone of the Dutch ecomony. The Dutch transported wine, salt, spices and precious metals from France, Spain and Portugal to the Baltic area and brought back grain, iron, copper, wood, saltpeter, hemp, tar, etc. The grain from the Baltic allowed the Dutch population to almost double in less than a century. During the Golden Age, the ship building, construction and textile industries boomed. The East Sea trade, combined with trade with the Far East (spices, pepper, silk, cotton) and privateering and slave trade in the New World made Amsterdam the financial and commercial capital of the world.

            During the Golden Age, the Netherlands established many colonies. Some would only be under Dutch rule for a few decades (New England, Brazil, Mauritius, Taiwan), others for centuries (Surinam, Dutch Antilles, Gold Coast, South Africa, Ceylon, Indonesia, Japan, Spitsbergen). The most striking thing of these colonies was that they were not owned or governed by the Dutch state: these colonies were the property of companies (VOC in the east, WIC in the west) and the governments of these colonies consisted entirely of employees of these companies and were hired rather than elected or appointed; statesmen, nobles or aristocrats had no say in this at all.

            The Golden Age was also the cultural and scientific zenith of Dutch civilization. The most famous example of this are the painters: although there have been many famous Dutch painters before and after the Golden Age (Bosch, Van Gogh, Mondriaan, etc), there was a large concentration of them during this time (Rembrandt, Vermeer, Hals, Steen, Potter, etc). But other aspects of Dutch culture also reached an unprecedented height: literature (Vondel, Hooft, Huygens, Cats), philosophy (Spinoza), medicine (Van Leeuwenhoek) and science (Huygens, Snellius, Stevin, etc).

            After 1700 the Golden Age ended as the international economic depression finally started to affect the Dutch economy while the French and English were already recovering. The Dutch empire soon went into decline, with the conquest of the Netherlands by Napeleon as lowpoint. At the convention of Vienna in 1815 the Netherlands regained their independence and became a kingdom. Although the times of the Golden Age would never return, the Netherlands would since then (especially after WWII) continue to be one among the most important nations of Europe and the world in terms of science, economy, culture and politics.
            Last edited by Locutus; October 23, 2001, 10:30.
            Administrator of WePlayCiv -- Civ5 Info Centre | Forum | Gallery

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Locutus

              The Belgian Revolution started in 1830 but Belgium as an independent state was not recognized until 1839 (IIRC also the year in which King Leopold I was crowned).
              Belgium declared independence on 4 oct 1830, and this was recognized by every important European nation. I don't know when exactly, but it must have been somewhere between oct 1830- july 1831 ( Leopold I was crowned king on 21 july 1831 )
              Willem I didn't recognize Belgium's independence until 1839 though...
              In een hoerekotje aan den overkant emmekik mijn bloem verloren,
              In een hoerekotje aan den overkant bennekik mijn bloemeke kwijt

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Assur


                Belgium declared independence on 4 oct 1830, and this was recognized by every important European nation. I don't know when exactly, but it must have been somewhere between oct 1830- july 1831 ( Leopold I was crowned king on 21 july 1831 )
                Willem I didn't recognize Belgium's independence until 1839 though...
                100% right.
                21th of july became our national day (although for personal convictions I would have prefered the independence day).
                The books that the world calls immoral are the books that show the world its own shame. Oscar Wilde.

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                • #38
                  Well, all the (Dutch and non-Dutch) sources I originally checked said 1839 but I did some further research and it would seem that a (albeit small) majority of the sources I could find mention 1830/1831. I'll gladly agree on changing it to 1831, if it makes people happy...
                  Administrator of WePlayCiv -- Civ5 Info Centre | Forum | Gallery

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Locutus
                    Well, all the (Dutch and non-Dutch) sources I originally checked said 1839 but I did some further research and it would seem that a (albeit small) majority of the sources I could find mention 1830/1831. I'll gladly agree on changing it to 1831, if it makes people happy...
                    1839 for international recognition, but independence was effective since 1831 (with the help of France) and during the 1831/39 period more and more states recognized Belgium. I think (but I'm not sure) that Britain was the first country to recognize Belgium.
                    Here are 2 links (the 2nd seems more accurate).


                    The books that the world calls immoral are the books that show the world its own shame. Oscar Wilde.

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                    • #40
                      Wonders of the Dutch
                      Delta Works
                      Hunebeds
                      Karel ende Elegast (heroic epic)
                      Keukenhof
                      Kinderdike Mills
                      Nachtwacht
                      Tinbergen's Centraal Planbureau
                      VOC
                      Waterline

                      Edit: added two more

                      typical Dutch inventions in game terms
                      Printing Press (!)
                      Economics
                      The Corporation
                      Last edited by Ribannah; October 23, 2001, 19:46.
                      A horse! A horse! Mingapulco for a horse! Someone must give chase to Brave Sir Robin and get those missing flags ...
                      Project Lead of Might and Magic Tribute

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                      • #41
                        Dry, I'll gladly believe you on your word...

                        Originally posted by Ribannah
                        Printing Press (!)
                        Run for cover! Korea-fans incoming!

                        Another Dutch wonder: Legalization of Drugs
                        Administrator of WePlayCiv -- Civ5 Info Centre | Forum | Gallery

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                        • #42
                          Another Dutch wonder: Legalization of Drugs
                          Increases happiness by four per city, -50% shields (people are stoned most of the time) + increased pollution (from the manufacturing of drugs )

                          Karel ende Elegast (heroic epic)
                          I myself would have chosen 'Mariken van Nimwegen' or 'Van den vos Reinaerde'.

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                          • #43
                            History

                            Here's is the history of Phoenicia that I wrote that Locutus wanted me to post here. I'm also working on a Carthage history.

                            CAPITAL: Tyre
                            LEADERS: Hiram the Great (of Tyre), Hannibal Barca, or Hamilcar Barca
                            (both of Carthage). (f) Princess Dido of Tyre, Princess Jezebel of Tyre.
                            SPECIAL UNIT: A quinquireme, 5 decks of rowers, a nasty looking metal prow,
                            fit to sink any second class ship. Most dangerous thing on the Ancient
                            Mediterranean.
                            CITIES: (PHOENICIA) Tyre, Byblos, Sidon, Tripoli, Tarshish, Berytus,
                            Arwad, Zarephath, Jubeil, Acco, Ugarit, Ophir, Marisa, Shechem, Aradus,
                            Ashdod (COLONIES) (CYPRUS) Enkomi, Kition, Curium, Paphos, Amathus,
                            (RHODES) Lindos, (SICILY) Cossrya, Motya, Panormus, Lilybaeum, (MALTA) Melita,
                            (SARDINIA) Sulci, Olbia, Caralis, Nora, Bitia, Tharrus, (BALEARICS) Ebusus,
                            (SPAIN) Lucentum, Carthago Nova, Abdera, Toscanos, Malaca, Gades, (N.
                            AFRICA) Carthage, Utica, Leptis Magna, Djerba, Sabratha, Thapsus,
                            Hadrumetum, Hippo Repis, Rachgoun, Tingis, and
                            Lixus.

                            THE PHOENICIAN HISTORY. Though the coast of what is now
                            Lebanon has always been inhabited since as far as history has been recorded,
                            the earliest Phoenician city, Byblos (near present-day Beirut) was probably
                            first settled around 5000 BC by a group of weary individuals who claimed to
                            be “descendants of the Dorian Kings from Heracles”. Very early on the
                            Phoenicians seem to have been using their brains, for they created the first
                            Alphabet in history, the numerals of which were the basis for those of the
                            English language. By 2700 BC (around the time Tyre was taken over by
                            Phoenicia) Byblos was perhaps the greatest trade center on the
                            Mediterranean, they were the ones who, for example, sold cedar wood to the
                            Egyptians (who must have loved the smell, for they paid a bundle for it) who
                            in turn gave them papyrus, which the Phoenicians traded to Greece, who then
                            lovingly called all books ‘Byblos’, and so the word ‘Bible’ was born.

                            The greatest Phoenician city, Tyre (Tyrus in Latin or Zor in Hebrew, home to
                            Marinas, who designated the latitude-longitude lines, and Zeno the great
                            philosopher and founder of the Stoic School) was actually taken over by guys
                            from Byblos around 2700 BC, and by that time it was already a good sized city
                            (Herodotus claims it was built in the 28th Century), and at the same time the
                            third largest city in Phoenicia, Sidon was built. It had once been an ancient
                            burial ground, and among the tombs found in the area was that of the
                            Assyrian King Eshmunazar. However, all of these cities were un-unified city
                            states. Thus when the Babylonians attacked the Phoenicians were quickly
                            conquered. The Babylonians were kicked out by Egyptians in 1800 BC
                            (probably so they could get their cedar wood) who held it until 1400 BC when
                            they, in turn, were booted out of Phoenicia by the Phoenicians themselves,
                            sick and tired of Egyptian rule, and seeing an easy chance to revolt when the
                            Hittites made such nuisance that Egyptian armies in Phoenicia were called
                            away. The happier, independent Phoenicians then began to rebuild their
                            culture, forming a federation of the city-states in the fourth largest city of
                            Phoenicia, Tripoli. It was around 1100 BC when the Phoenicians emerged as a
                            truly great commercial and sea power.

                            Of all of their trade items, the purple dye which they made from crushed
                            murex shells was their most popular. In fact the word Phoenicia is
                            derived from the Greek word for ‘purple’. Other popular trade items included
                            brightly coloured glass beads and blue and yellow glass vases. Cedar wood
                            (and later cypress wood) were also popular trade items. When Tyre began it’s
                            colonization and expansion the slave trade became a smaller trade avenue,
                            and when the colonization reached North Africa ivory joined the list as well.
                            The naval might of Phoenicia also helped increase the trading, as the
                            Mediterranean was at Phoenicia’s golden age dominated by the powerful
                            quinquiremes and the smaller biremes.

                            King Hiram the Great (reign 969-936 BC) of Tyre, Phoenicia’s greatest ruler,
                            was an expansionist and a builder. One of the first things he accomplished
                            when he ascended to the throne of Tyre was to connect the city with the
                            island just a little way off the coast by filling in the sea between them, thus
                            expanding the city by a quarter. Tyre under his rule was on very good terms
                            with the Israelites during the reigns of both Kings David and Solomon (who
                            was even married to one of Hiram’s daughters), and even assisting in the
                            construction of Solomon’s temple in Jerusalem by sending architects and
                            cedar wood. Still later the hated King Ahab of Israel married King Motto of
                            Tyre’s daughter Jezebel (who is one of the most justly disliked people who
                            ever lived). Hiram also sent colonies to the islands of Cyprus, Crete, and
                            Rhodes, to Anatolia, Sicily, Corsica and Sardinia, the Balearic Islands,
                            Spain, and north Africa (founding Carthage).

                            Finally, in 574 BC, when it appeared that Phoenicia’s power could only escalate, something very unexpected happened, the Chaldean Empire of Nebuchadnezzar II (of Babylon) took Tyre in a 13 year siege. The Phoenicians then began offering child sacrifices to Baal and the rest of their menagerie of gods and goddesses in order to save the rest of their empire (which didn’t help their population rate), but this didn’t really help much as soon Babylon controlled all of Phoenicia. However, the might of Babylon was in it’s twilight years and they were destroyed by the new Persian empire under King Cyrus (and the dumber of Nebuchadnezzar’s successors).

                            About 200 years later, the more “Persianized” Phoenicians were in danger yet again. Persia had just been freshly squashed by the ancient world’s most powerful reprobate, Alexander the Great, King ofMacedonia, and now the little conqueror’s army was advancing towards the Phoenician coast. Byblos, Sidon, Tripoli, and Arwad all surrendered to big Al without a fight, but Tyre stood firm against him. Unable to storm Tyre, Alexander besieged it for the following 7 months, but to no avail. Loosing more men then he wished to, poor (angry) Alexander ordered that siege engines be brought up and his men to use them for the purposes for which they were constructed, and the city fell. Half the city was destroyed and the 30,000 residents were either massacred or sold as slaves, this truly was the end of the Phoenician empire (or at least the Phoenician part of the Phoenician empire...). Up until the coming of Alexander, despite every enemy take-over, Phoenicia had managed to retain the same religion, culture, and systems, but when the Greek war-machine took over everything changed. The “Phoenicians” became Greco-Hellenized, and when Rome took over in 64 BC, even the name ‘Phoenicia’ was erased.(As an interesting note, it was Phoenicia and her colonies in Sicily, Spain, Cyprus, and North Africa that were the first parts of the Roman Empire to become overwhelmingly Christian.)

                            Phoenicia’s most powerful (and most famous) colony was that of Carthage,
                            which existed in North Africa in what is now called Tunesia. King Hiram
                            ordered the building of Carthage near the older Phoenician city of Utica on
                            the Mediterranean coast. According to legend Carthage (or as it was actually
                            called by the Phoenicians, Kar-Hadasht) was built at the end of the 9th
                            Century BC as a trading post by Princess Dido. The legend is that the local
                            African ruler told her that she could claim as much land as an ox-hide could
                            cover. Dido, bright lady, ordered the hide to be cut into very thin strips so
                            that she could claim huge pieces of territory, using the strips as a border.


                            SPECIAL UNIT HISTORY: When the Babylonians and Egyptians were
                            kicked out in 1400 BC, the Phoenicians began re-assembling their
                            civilization, and one of the new additions was a great navy. The greatest
                            sailors of the ancient world, Phoenicians would be famous for, among other
                            things, the (alleged) circling by Admiral Hanno of the whole of the continent of Africa
                            in 600 BC. The powerful military vessels, greatest among which was the fast,
                            huge, and powerful quinquireme were constructed to subdue the inhabitants
                            of the countries which they then took over and colonized. The quinquireme
                            was long and tall, with 5 decks of rowers and huge, bronze prows at the bow
                            with which they could ram anything that got in their way!
                            Last edited by History Guy; November 9, 2001, 13:53.
                            Empire growing,
                            Pleasures flowing,
                            Fortune smiles and so should you.

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                            • #44
                              Thanks, History Guy!
                              Excellent work!
                              At least it looks promising to me.
                              "Kids, don't listen to uncle Solver unless you want your parents to spank you." - Solver

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                              • #45
                                I'm impressed!
                                A horse! A horse! Mingapulco for a horse! Someone must give chase to Brave Sir Robin and get those missing flags ...
                                Project Lead of Might and Magic Tribute

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