China turned from scientific to militaristic?

[YefeiPi]

What gives that? Why did they change Chinese from scientific to militaristic? What gives? China is not even militaristic! God damn, is that how Firaxis treat a great nation which gave the world, gunpowder, paper, compass, among millions other important inventions?!

Oh well, guess Firaxis want Chinese players to kick ass instead of pursuing knowledge.

[Gramphos]

It is because China should be able to start their Golden age by building the Great Wall.

[Steve Clark]

If you don't like those attributes, then you can change them back. Or if you don't like what triggers a civ's Golden Age, simply change it. I certainly wouldn't get all bent out of shape with the default attributes and triggers.

[Transcend]

Orthodox Confucianists(pacifist folks) only got the upper hand in the late Chinese empires. China was pretty militaristic from its beginning all the way to the Song Dynasty. That actually made up 2500 years of its 3500 years written history.

If China had not been militaristic and expansionistic to a certain degree, they wouldn't have conquered and assimilated so many territories.

[easy]

I can't believe this!!!
Firaxis is crazy!!!

[YefeiPi]

If China had not been militaristic and expansionistic to a certain degree, they wouldn't have conquered and assimilated so many territories.

That's true, but still I feel China is much more scientific than it's militaristic

[Steve Clark]

Then change the Chinese to Scientific. It will read the txt file and act accordingly. If you are unsure how to do that, just wait, I and probably many others will help. The beauty of this whole thing is that we can make each civ the way we want it (for whatever reasons). Don't be stuck on what Firaxis chooses for the attributes (or even the unique unit), they are just one of many, many possibilities you chose.

[Harlan]

Its pretty easy to see why China has been changed to militaristic, and it has little to do with playbalancing. I think when they decided to make wonder completion be a trigger for Golden Ages (great idea, by the way), they had to work back from what kind of wonder it was. The Chinese happen to have two militaristic wonders in the game: Art of War and Great Wall. So to encourage the Chinese player to build these, they made the civ militaristic. Them's the breaks.

Its hard to argue with Art of War, but with Great Wall, one could make the argument that its precisely the non-militaristic civ that would build a great wall so they can keep other civs from invading, and thus ignore war as much as possible. So it could be seen as one of the least militaristic wonders out there.

Probably too late for that though - its amazing they actually listened to us here once and changed the Golden Age feature somewhat.

By the way, I find it interesting that Sun Tzu's War Academy appears to be split in two for Civ3. Once as the Art of War major wonder, and once as the War Academy small wonder. Good idea if you ask me, since Sun Tzu didn't actually have a war academy, but did write a very influential book.

[Steve Clark]

Originally posted by Harlan I think when they decided to make wonder completion be a trigger for Golden Ages (great idea, by the way)

Our friend, yin, thinks that's a silly idea, if I read it correctly. Given that everything in Civ should be simple, yet elegant, it will be fun to see how this great idea is implemented and how we can alter it to provide variety.

[Arent]

Mmmh - I think it's a good idea (Wonders starting GA).
I liked Chinese being Scientific/Industrious but well... perhaps we should ask someone
living in China!? Anyone out there?
They were quite militaristic but western stereotype is the philosophical China.

Arent

[Urban Ranger]

Transcend,

"China was pretty militaristic from its beginning all the way to the Song Dynasty."

Not true. I would say long stretches of peace were interrupted by short bursts of wars and conquest. I do not believe the Chinese culture was predisposed toward the application of force. Looking up militaristic here I found neither of the definitions fit overall. Admittedly some emperors were like that, but most weren't.

Actually, commerical is the best fit. Consider that Qin Shihuang was put into place more or less by a wealthy merchant, commerce took root very early. Scientific is still a better fit than militaristic, as the Chinese did come up with large numbers of inventions and discoveries, including the first recorded obsevation of a supernova.

[KrazyHorse]

The Chinese militaristic? That's a joke...

[Transcend]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

Not true. I would say long stretches of peace were interrupted by short bursts of wars and conquest. I do not believe the Chinese culture was predisposed toward the application of force. Looking up militaristic here I found neither of the definitions fit overall. Admittedly some emperors were like that, but most weren't.

I don't mean that militaristic is the right choice to describe China. But I want to point out that China had not been peaceful either during most of its history, as was thought by many westerners.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Transcend
I don't mean that militaristic is the right choice to describe China. But I want to point out that China had not been peaceful either during most of its history, as was thought by many westerners.

Agreed. My contention was though just because a large part of Chinese history was about turmoil doesn't mean the people themselves were predisposed in that direction.

[PGM]

I like the change. Also, the powerful Rider fits a militaristic civ well. But obviously, the UU needs a new name.