The KOREAN Civilization: Things Every Civ Player Should Know

[Aro]

Go to http://www.aroeira.com.br/ . Is three years old, but I am drawing in the same manner nowadays...
In the next week, I hope, this site will be working fine, and I’ll put it on my profile.

Edited: All cartoons are in portuguese, and mostly about local issues. However, soon I’ll have an english version, too.

[King of Rasslin]

You guys don't watch a lot of westerns, do you? I see nothing wrong with calling them Indians, because you learn and discuss a lot more about Indians than people from India. At least in my school.

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Lord Merciless
Yeah, I guessed somehow that Ribannah confused Tenochtitlan with Teotihuacan.

Yep, my bad.
Still, the question remains: what did the Aztecs accomplish besides building a large city and conquering some close neighbours?

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by King of Rasslin
Indian Languages closer to West European? I thought Indians came to America from Asia, although I hear now that there is some white blood in them, learned from a DNA test. So maybe this was OUR land all along!

Many white people were adopted by Amerind tribes, especially by the Iroquois, so there's bound to be some percentage of 'white blood' in them now.
Originally, they were Siberian and Tunguz hunters who crossed the landbridge where we now have the Bering Sreet.

Also, there was a statue in Central America that is supposed to be really old that looks like a black person. I think American Indians are just every race mixed up, since they are very unique compared to the others.

I know which statue(s) you mean. It has been suggested that some African explorers reached the Americas, met the Olmec and became local leaders: aside from the statues, some Olmec kings have names that sound suspiciously African.

Originally posted by King of Rasslin
You guys don't watch a lot of westerns, do you? I see nothing wrong with calling them Indians, because you learn and discuss a lot more about Indians than people from India. At least in my school.

I see you still have your little problem of considering your school the center of the world.
There are a LOT more Indian movies (the real India) than there are westerns. I estimate at least 1000 times as many.

[King of Rasslin]

"Many white people were adopted by Amerind tribes, especially by the Iroquois, so there's bound to be some percentage of 'white blood' in them now."

I meant the DNA was tested from some really old skeleton, long before Columbus or the Vikings landed in America. I wouldn't be surprised if blacks made it to America. Who wants to live in a jungle? Unfortunately for them, they just landed in another one!

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Ribannah

Still, the question remains: what did the Aztecs accomplish besides building a large city and conquering some close neighbours?

Written language, Literature, Astronomy, a sophiscated Bureaucracy, professional Specializations, Currency, organized Religion(Polytheism), Mathematics, Construction, and enough logistical skills to plan and to build a city for 200,000.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by King of Rasslin
You guys don't watch a lot of westerns, do you? I see nothing wrong with calling them Indians, because you learn and discuss a lot more about Indians than people from India. At least in my school.

You need to open your eyes and see the world beyond your (high)school. People will start respecting you if you stop making yourself the center of the world.

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Lord Merciless


Written language, Literature, Astronomy, a sophiscated Bureaucracy, professional Specializations, Currency, organized Religion(Polytheism), Mathematics, Construction, and enough logistical skills to plan and to build a city for 200,000.

Which of these did the Aztecs develop (as opposed to inherit / learn from others)?

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Ribannah

Which of these did the Aztecs develop (as opposed to inherit / learn from others)?

Everyone learns from their ancestors or neighbors. What about Romans? Didn't they first conquer the Etruscans, then Samnites, then Carthaginians, then Greeks, then Gauls, and inherited much of their cultures? Even the style of the imperial legionary helmet was copied from the Gauls. Archaelogically, this helmet is called to be of the "Imperial Gallic" style. By your logic, Romans didn't invent anything on their own, but only conquered and stole the knowledge from others.

Zhou, a semi-barbarian people and founder of the same-named dynasty, conquered and inherited much of the Shang culture, which was considered the origin of the Chinese culture. 400 years after overthrowing Shang, Zhou were themselves being driven from their ancestry homeland by Barbarians. Later one of these barbarian tribe acknowledged the hegemony of the Zhou king and was appointed the Duke of Chin. Well, the name China is derived from this state Chin. In another 500 years, Chin would become firmly integrated into the Zhou culture and would go on to unify the Realm. China was born. By your logic, Chinese didn't invent anything on their own, but only conquered and stole the knowledge of others.

By your logic, all later civilizations who learnt or inherited knowledge from their ancestors didn't invent anything on their own, but only conquered and stole the knowledge of others.


However, I'll concede that unlike Romans, Chinese, and many others, Aztecs didn't add much value to the knowledge they inherited. But still, I think without much value added, Aztecs have achieved far more than Iroquois and co who couldn't even build something called 'City'.

[Ribannah]

A city is just a large town. If the Iroquois had felt the need they would have built one, but in their environment towns of some 3,000 citizens were optimal, like in most of the world at the time.

[King of Rasslin]

"You need to open your eyes and see the world beyond your (high)school. People will start respecting you if you stop making yourself the center of the world."

I don't know a thing about these foreign cultures, and I took world history last year. We mainly covered Eygpt, Sumeria, Rome, Greece, and Europe. The Middle East got a little exposure when we talked about the crusades, but that was mainly a European event. We will take more American history this year. It's sad that other cultures are either too primitive to have any culture or too weak/isolationist to show the world what they have.

[Ribannah]

KoR, ask your history teacher if (s)he can tell you about those other cultures, so you won't keep these silly ideas for the rest of your life. Or, if your teacher is the one who is planting this stupidity in your head, go straight to the principal and demand a better teacher.

[Aro]

Lord Merciless,
About my cartoons...
How could I forget my newspaper's site?? try this one:

http://odia.ig.com.br/sites/aroeira/index.htm

Edited
It's updated almost everyday

[King of Rasslin]

They never really wanted to contact the West, so they aren't influential in our (American) history. They didn't want to get involved with us unless it was for guns. In fact, they would only trade with the Arabs, and the Arabs traded the goods to Europe. That was the only way we knew about the East, besides Marco Polo going there. And he was very lucky to make it there, as well as come back alive.

The East is still very isolationist. They don't even teach Kung Fu in GA, and you would have to go to Tibet or China learn it. I think Eastern culture will be taught more when they want it to be taught. For now, they don't want to mess with us.

[Q Classic]

I don't know a thing about these foreign cultures, and I took world history last year. We mainly covered Eygpt, Sumeria, Rome, Greece, and Europe. The Middle East got a little exposure when we talked about the crusades, but that was mainly a European event. We will take more American history this year. It's sad that other cultures are either too primitive to have any culture or too weak/isolationist to show the world what they have.

but see, that's just it. the other cultures are NOT too primitive. they just have the dumb luck of not being in the west--where those textbooks are written. i hate to tell you this, but if you went to high school in atlanta, or even athens, you'd get that exposure to the other cultures-- indians, east asians, etc. and even then, the exposure you'd get would be limited, not because they're too weak or some sh1t like that as you keep thinking, but because they're not european.

They never really wanted to contact the West, so they aren't influential in our (American) history.

i guess your studies in american history are also incomplete. why? because the transcontinental railroad was constructed largely with asian assistance-- chinese immigrants built the damn railroad straigh through the rockies. not blacks, not whites, but asians. that's pretty damn influential, don't you think?
what about in the twentieth century? that little thing, uh, what was it called... pearl harbor? you're right, that's irrelevant. nothing came out of it.

They didn't want to get involved with us unless it was for guns.

might i remind you that asia had gunpowder long before you europeans? and that we did have cannons before you europeans even came?

In fact, they would only trade with the Arabs, and the Arabs traded the goods to Europe. That was the only way we knew about the East, besides Marco Polo going there. And he was very lucky to make it there, as well as come back alive.

actually, no. the romans did have a trade with the chinese, but it was mediated along the silk road. so did the europeans. the reason why there was no direct european trade with the east was not because of isolation, but more because of the sheer distance involved, and the fact that the "arabs", as you put it, were smack dab in the middle. marco polo left for china precisely because he'd heard about the east from the traders, but he did not have much difficulty in going or departing-- the silk road was a very well traveled caravan route.

The East is still very isolationist. They don't even teach Kung Fu in GA, and you would have to go to Tibet or China learn it.

the east is not very isolationist these days. what gives you that idea? what makes you think that kung fu is the be all and end all of asian civilization? the reason they don't teach kung fu in georgia is because kung fu is a very limited part of the vast group of physical combat known as the martial arts. other forms of it-- from asia-- are taught in georgia. tae kwon do (korea); karate (japan); aikido, hapkido, jujitsu, kendo, kempo... all taught in georgia. so don't go pulling some bullsh1t out of your arse saying it's not taught in georgia, because i've lived there for 18 years of my life.

I think Eastern culture will be taught more when they want it to be taught. For now, they don't want to mess with us.

except, it is starting to get taught. and in case you haven't noticed, the asians are messing with the united states. you've got china and taiwan, pretty much one of the biggest concerns of the us foreign policy, outside of skorea and nkorea; the vast majority of electronic and computer components are now built -and designed, in some cases- in korea, japan, and taiwan. do you have a cell phone? chances are some of the components are asian. what about gaming systems? sega, nintendo, sony, all japanese-- with parts manufactured in asia. the us and china are constantly sparring over trade agreements, human rights, and political one-upmanship.
there is a veritable plethora of different asian restaurants in any city of appreciable size; major universities teach rigorous courses on east asian and south asian history. not only that, most of them teach the languages of those cultures, too. and most asian communities have cultural organizations in major cities-- large enough to hold cultural festivals.

your problem, kor, is that you're too closed-minded and ignorant of what's really happening that you're ending up saying things which are flat out wrong. here's a thought: do some research. open your eyes, and find out that the united states is just the most powerful country in a world full of powerful countries--and is constantly trying to make sure it stays at the top of the pack of many which seek to one-up the us. don't make assumptions based on what little knowledge you have-- it's not working.