The KOREAN Civilization: Things Every Civ Player Should Know

[Japher]

My post look odd, and got cut off at the beginning where I say:

I was once in Philly on buisness. I was having a beer in this bar watching a baseball game came in. We drank and talk than he said some thing really mean. He said, "You American don't have any culture that your own."


Then my post should of began...

[King of Rasslin]

All Asians do look the same, almost. I mean, telling the difference between a Japanese and a Korean is like telling the difference between a Frenchie and a German. They are all about the same, man! Japan, Taiwan, and the Phillipines were settled by the Chinese. India, however, is a unique group. Pakistan is a mix of India and Arabs. Laos is the same as Vietnam. It's just another commie country as far as I'm concerned. I think you just made up some of the other races. (WTF is Bengali!!!)

Really, all Africans look the same, All Europeans look the same, and almost all Asians look the same, with maybe minor differences.

As for the C or K issue, C and K have distinct sounds. They should be able to translate their sounds to ours without difficulty because we have had contact with them for hundreds of years. Besides, no one knows if the Japanese changed the spelling or not. Just take it as it is: a misspelling.

[Q Classic]

>eyetwitch<
>eyetwitch<

Japan, Taiwan, and the Phillipines were settled by the Chinese

wrong. recent genetic evidence suggests that the ancestors of the modern japanese came from mongolian, korean, polynesian, and ainu stock, with almost no chinese influence. indeed, the genetic evidence suggests that most of the genetic stock is korean.
furthermore, genetic studies have shown that the korean people, although sharing physical appearances not unlike those of the chinese, are more likely to have a common ancestry with the mongols rather than the chinese.
the philippines are of polynesian ancestry, not chinese. they have rather flimsy cultural links with the chinese; not only is their language (tagalog) in a different group, just looking at the basic things of their culture shows that the relations are not very close.

Pakistan is a mix of India and Arabs.

mm... why don't you go tell a pakistani this? i'm sure he'll have a few choice words for you. just because the pakistani are muslim does not mean that they have arabic blood.

Laos is the same as Vietnam.

Hungary is the same as Romania (both of them just former commie countries as far as i'm concerned.) Greece is the same as Turkey (both of them just part of the same old Ottoman Empire, as far as i'm concerned).
Alabama is the same as Georgia (both of them have lots of rural redneck folk, as far as i'm concerned). Ireland is the same as England (both of them have some of that wierd celtic thing going on, as far as i'm concerned).

I think you just made up some of the other races. (WTF is Bengali!!!)

you obviously have no knowledge about this region of the world... why do you insist on continuing to make such incorrect generalizations?

As for the C or K issue, C and K have distinct sounds.

computer.
console.
Kentucky.
tank.
bank.
fact.
so much for distinct sounds. maybe that argument needs a bit of work.

They should be able to translate their sounds to ours without difficulty because we have had contact with them for hundreds of years.

actually, the United States has had contact with korea and japan for only a little over 125 to 150 years. the western world has had only face to face contact with east asia, for at most, 200 to 300, and for most of that, it's been with china, since korea and japan were both exceedingly isolationist and refused to speak with westerners in almost all cases.

Besides, no one knows if the Japanese changed the spelling or not.

they haven't. their romanization remains constant. it is Nippon, and only rarely will you find the other form of Nihon. this latter romanization is not widely accepted, and thus, irrelevant.

Just take it as it is: a misspelling.

i never said it was a misspelling. i think their decision to romanize their language as such, even though it may look wrong to you, is perfectly acceptable, and thus not misspelled.

======

Basically, I must be a bigot or I might just be uninformed. I consider myself to be well schooled, yet educated? If a certain culture cannot scream loud enough to fall on my deaf ears, than I am not going to include them as a dominant civilization(mainly because I can't see that they exist), and K/Corea I must say is a lot quieter than Japan or China, and not to say this is a bad thing.

right. except, to my ears, in the united states, the dutch culture hasn't exactly made their presence known. i will have to say until i do more reasearch, the turks, ottomans, and arabs seem to me to be pretty much the same. and that's the same for the aztecs, incas, and mayans. what have the maori done? and how are the portuguese any different from the spaniards? weren't they at different times or another one kingdom?

the problem with history taught in the western world is that it's often so euro-centric and western-based that all the african and asian civilizations are short changed, compressed into one or two flimsy chapters; and native cultures are almost always written in a condescending manner. i'm not surprised you haven't heard of korean culture. but can you honestly say you know much about chinese and japanese culture? just because you've heard of them and not korea does not mean that the koreans got in because of fan base.
indeed, although firaxis may have hopes of seeling PTW well in korea, it's highly unlikely.
why? koreans aren't as into TBS strategy as they are into two genres of gaming:
Massively Multiplayer/Online,
and Real-Time Strategy.
PTW is not real-time, not really, and is not Massively Multiplayer. it may sell decently, but not enough to make firaxis the bundle it might hope just by including the koreans.

[yin26]

Yes, TBS does *NOT* sell well here in Korea. They like games that can be played competitively in relatively short amounts of time ... and on T.V. Yes, they run T.V. programs here with two guys playing an RTS or FIFA 2002, etc.

They even have commentators discussing the various moves, etc.

Civ3, let's just say, is somewhat 'slower.'

[King of Rasslin]

Or, maybe the Koreans can't handle such an intellectual game as Civ 3.

J/K... Civ 3 is so dumbed down, my 8 year old sister could play it. I guess it does get a little boring to crush the pitiful AI. I hope PtW and multiplayer will improve the game. It really is a step above Civ 2 but I like Alpha Centauri more.

I actually think it will do very well in Korea. They will make multiplayer more interesting, and with more scenarios. Although Koreans take video games way, way too seriously. I actually might like Korea!

I have been taught very little about Korea and Africa, Asia, etc other than that they exist. Genetic evidence is very faulty. I mean, white people supposedly settled America based on that Kenniwick man or whatever. But everyone knows that Asians settled America. However... The Eygyptians might have settled America because of pyramids here being very similar to the Eygptian ones. I think the Iroquios should be half Eygptians and half Koreans/Mongols. I guess Civ 3 should be based on CULTURE, not race, because the Iroquios are really just Asians.

And culture wise, Korea is so similar to Japan and China. That is what hurts its validity of being a whole new civ. I think Portugal would be a good idea because we need more naval UUs.

[yin26]

"I have been taught very little about Korea."

"And culture wise, Korea is so similar to Japan and China."

Nuff said. LOL!

[Ribannah]

The Iroquois have Siberian nomads as their ancestors. However, because of many adoptions, there is a considerable percentage of white blood.

With some probability Africans (not Egyptians though) made it to meso-America, while there is evidence that the Chinese may have reached Mexico / California. Both mixed with the local population (Olmec and pre-Aztec), descendents of an earlier wave of Siberians / Tunguz.

But in the eyes of the Sasquatch, all these humans look pretty much the same.

Btw, if for marketing reasons, Firaxis should definitely put the Dutch in one of the expansions. Which they should do anyway because of their importance. (Q Cubed: the Dutch are one of the largest, of not the largest, foreign investors in the US; look for Dutch (cultural) presence in eg banking, insurance, supermarkets, airlines, and of course trade.)

[Veracitas]

haha, when i took the ALL LOOK SAME test, I got like a FIVE!! man, i had NO CLUE...

[King of Rasslin]

HA! I got 6

Just proves that I know more about Asians than the average person...

Although that test really is bull****. I am white and of European descent but I can't tell the difference between French and German people. That is why culture counts, not race! However, Chinese culture and Japanese culture simply overwhelm Korean...

I'm sorry, just face the truth! I read that China was once 3 kingdoms once, and Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, etc. War runs deep within Japanese and Chinese culture. And Civ 3 is a war game! You don't turtle anymore here, this is different from Civ 2! That is why the peaceful "builders" of Korea have less importance than the warlike Japanese or Chinese.

Every civ currently in Civ 3 has had many major WARS. The Korean war had a lot of influence by Russia and China, so I wouldn't count that as a major war.

[Q Classic]

Or, maybe the Koreans can't handle such an intellectual game as Civ 3.

KoR, comments such as those are what trolls do.

as yin pointed out:

"I have been taught very little about Korea."

"And culture wise, Korea is so similar to Japan and China."

i'm going to ask a favor of you, KoR. not too big of one, but one nonetheless.
why don't you go back and read this thread from the beginning, and then go to some of the links, like [url=www.korealore.com]? even though such self-guided reading won't get you a degree in east asian studies, it will go a long way in clarifying a lot of the errors in belief you insist on perpetuating.

Ribannah:

(...One of the largest, of not the largest, foreign investors in the US; look for Dutch (cultural) presence in eg banking, insurance, supermarkets, airlines, and of course trade.)

i'm well aware of the contributions the dutch have made to world culture; i was merely using them as an example to point out how many cultures, including the koreans, are ignored simply because they don't seem to be 'distinct' enough. most native american cultures don't seem 'distinct' enough, nor do most asian or african cultures... but almost all european cultures, apparently, are.
in all fairness, i think the major thing the average american person thinks of when they think of the netherlands is not a cultural history of trade, relative tolerance in religion (there was that little tiff with catholic spain, so...), and beautiful art, but of wooden shoes, windmills, and legal marijuana.
in truth, i wouldn't mind if the dutch were in; in fact, i'd like them in. but i don't think that the koreans should be taken out instead.

I read that China was once 3 kingdoms once, and Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, etc.

korea was once 3 kingdoms (paekche, shilla, koguryo). koguryo fought with the chinese on several occasions. shilla conquered the other two in a series of wars.
japan invaded korea twice, and korea fought back, developing the ironclad ship against hideyoshi. the mongols invaded korea, and after a brutal fight, conquered the koreans briefly (so were the chinese, only the chinese suffered under mongol rule a lot longer).
war runs deep in korean culture, too. of course, you'd never read that in a regular history textbook; asian wars before the twentieth century were not 'important' enough, i suppose.

Although that test really is bull****

yes, i suppose. the test was there to make the point that the average american can't really tell the difference.
i myself got 11. not a great score, but 11/18 is still enough to be fairly accurate on calls.
the difference between germans and french, in my experience, is all in the face, particularly the shape of the nose and its placement.
(this is excluding the fact that germans march towards paris holding rifles, and the french march towards paris with their hands in the air. )

[siredgar]

I don't know why all of you are even trying to engage this i***t in a discussion.

[Q Classic]

hey, be nice. he's a georgian.

[thinkingamer]

Originally posted by King of Rasslin
Or, maybe the Koreans can't handle such an intellectual game as Civ 3.

J/K... Civ 3 is so dumbed down, my 8 year old sister could play it. I guess it does get a little boring to crush the pitiful AI. I hope PtW and multiplayer will improve the game. It really is a step above Civ 2 but I like Alpha Centauri more.

I was a hardcore civ2 and SMAC player, but i realized that it was not worth 5% of my life. Corean students has a very tight schedule in their schools; no hardcore Corean civ player can be in the top 20% in their schools. Even I, a hardcore Civ player, think that this game takes much more time than it should be.

Civ is not an intellectual game. RTS is not considered 100% strategy because mouse speed is essential. Same goes to Civ because a large part of this game involves luck.

And finally, did u know that Go (Baduk in Corean) is the only game that (arguably) surpasses Chess strategy wise? Coreans r the World champions of go like Russians r the champions of Chess. I guess Coreans handles intellectual games more than u think......

[King of Rasslin]

Go is not more intellectual than chess! Go is nothing compared to chess? I haven't even heard of go!

[Q Classic]

the concept of go/paduk is to eliminate the other player's pieces by capturing them. using a grid 19 by 19 in size, pieces are placed in such a manner as to try to surround the other player's pieces, and thereby, eliminate them.

much easier than chess to learn.

much harder than chess to master.

on related notes, the korean version of chess is also a little more fun, and a little harder. janggi's not bad.