Expansion Pack Civs (Part 3): Just one more...

[TechWins]

Why the f*** do people want another native american "Civ"??? - Even one is too much IMHO.

I want the Incans for two reasons, they were a great civ and there are not any SA (South American) civs included. I want the Sioux because they gave many great battles with the Americans plust there isn't not a west North American civ, so to speak. The Americans will have their starting location in the east on a world map. I want the Mayans because the were a great civ and again there isn't a SA civ included.

[StSz]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III


But the Habsburg were called the "Haus Österreich" (house of Austria) since the baroque ages.

Hmm, actually you are right. But there were no REAL Austrian state

Right, the Austrians were so much more of a Civilization than Mali, Ghana, Assyrians etc., who all range behind it...

hehe... The Austrians had big influence on other civilisations, and their architecture. Just look in Spain, Slovenia and Croatia.
You'll find the typical Austrian architecture.

And HEY! We are EVERYWHERE !!
Nearly nobody knows that a Austrian designed the Euro banknotes and coins (he he he.. with subliminal messages on it)...

Well, and we can't tell you our other plans to dominate the world... But I'll give you a hint: Voicemail

Now for something completely different:
Why the f*** do people want another native american "Civ"??? - Even one is too much IMHO.

cuz the Americans (the whole continent) love themself soooo much.... They can't get enough from their own continent, so they forget that there is a world outside.

...

[Daan]

So here is my list

Irish (20) (Nobody votes for the Irish??? Its fun a war between Scots, English and Irish)
so .. Scots (20)
Dutch (20) (off course, color orange; leader Louis van Gaal! )

Apache (20) with leader Winnetou ! ,Comanche (20) and Sioux (20) (so we can have native american wars ...)

Mongols (20) (whats civ without them ...)
Spanish (20)
Celts (20)
Vikings (20)

And to all dicussing about which civ should be in or out :
... its not about what is historically right, its about what would be fun in a game ... civ is a game ... not a religion nor a lifestyle ... just a game!

Sorry Locutus, youre right:

My list rewriten:

Irish (20) (Nobody votes for the Irish??? Its fun a war between Scots, English and Irish)
so .. Scots (20)
Dutch (20) (off course, color orange; leader Louis van Gaal! )

Apache (20) with leader Winnetou ! ,
Comanche (20) and
Sioux (20) (so we can have native american wars ...)

(so 60 points total)

Mongols (20) (whats civ without them ...)
Vikings (20)

[zeh]

Sorry about the overflow of points , I'll try again:

1.Spanish 10
2.Mongol 10
3.Viking 5
4.Turkish 5
5.Portugal 20
6.Brazil 20
7.Sioux 5
8.Mexican 10
9.Scots 10
10.Inca 10
11.South Africa 10
12.Assyrian 10
13.Dutch 5
14.Israelis 10
15.Vietnamese 10
16.Koreans 10

I expect that's right now!

[Jer8m8]

Locutus, you still didn't fix my vote. In my first vote, I had =5 for indus valley people, which you have still not updated

[Alinestra Covelia]

Okay, just my two cents. I'm casting votes to try to expand the civ choice out from a Euro-centric cone (a regrettable but completely understandable historical development, of course). Not that I have anything against Europe, but it would be nice to bring in far-flung civs to the gamer!

1. Mongols/Mongolians: 20 (largest land empire)
2. Incas: 20 (South American eminence)
3. Mayans: 20 (peaceable, developed South American power)
4. Manchurians: 15 (conquerers of China)
5. Koreans: 15 (Northeast Asian culture)
6. Ethiopians: 15 (early African empire)
7. Thai/Siamese: 15 (South Asian culture)
8. Australians: 15 (same story as Americans, but milder)
9. Kazakh: 15 (culture bordering Near/Central Asias and Europe)
10. Amazonians: 10 (geographic inhabitants of the largest river system - not the classical Amazons )

I hope that doesn't offend too many people. I'm aiming more for diversity necessarily than historical merit - after all, Civ is very much a "what-if" type of game.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia

3. Mayans: 20 (peaceable, developed South American power)

That myth again OK, the aztecs beat them in brutality but they had human sacrifice and bloody wars as every other mesoamerican civ

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by StSz
And HEY! We are EVERYWHERE !!
Nearly nobody knows that a Austrian designed the Euro banknotes and coins (he he he.. with subliminal messages on it)...

Well, and we can't tell you our other plans to dominate the world... But I'll give you a hint: Voicemail

You're talking too much. I'll tell Wolfi and Susi

cuz the Americans (the whole continent) love themself soooo much.... They can't get enough from their own continent, so they forget that there is a world outside.
...

They don't even focus on their continent, they really only focus on US territory...

[kolpo]

Poland 10
Tibet 10
Vikings 10
Australia 10
Brazil 10
Indonesia 10
Mongols 10
Sumerians 10
Ethiopia 10
South Afrika 10
Iran 10
Oekraïne 10
Spain 10
Portugal 10
Incas 10
Thai 10

[JellyDonut]

Here's my vote.

1. Celts 20
2. Spain 20
3. Vikings 20
4. Mongols 20
5. Portuguese 20
6. Dutch 20
7. Polynesians 20
8. Bantu 20

[Stefu]

Down with Polynesians!

Not because I have anything against Polynesia per se, but because... well, can you think of playing on Earth Map with a civ stuck in the middle of a small island? Can you think of AI playing that?

And for same reason, down with Eskimos! Glaciers are really good territory to build a civilization on...

[JellyDonut]

Originally posted by Stefu
Down with Polynesians!

Not because I have anything against Polynesia per se, but because... well, can you think of playing on Earth Map with a civ stuck in the middle of a small island? Can you think of AI playing that?

And for same reason, down with Eskimos! Glaciers are really good territory to build a civilization on...

For obvious reasons, I am not familiar with the AI in Civ 3, but as for playing the Polynesians, I would find it an interesting challenge to build a city on a 2- or 3- tile island and have to colonize the Pacific with transports. You would undoubtedly have the best navy in the game and a huge Pacific Empire

The Eskimos would be equally interesting. You would have to make do on the glacier and colonize southward into the warmer climate. There, you would expand in many directions to build a northern North American empire. And eventually you would have thawed out the glaciers in the city radii of your northern cities so they could grow like the other cities.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by JellyDonut


For obvious reasons, I am not familiar with the AI in Civ 3, but as for playing the Polynesians, I would find it an interesting challenge to build a city on a 2- or 3- tile island and have to colonize the Pacific with transports. You would undoubtedly have the best navy in the game and a huge Pacific Empire

That's what I'd always do with Japan in civ2, I'd just expand over all of the pacific islands... the computer was never smart enough to figure out how to attack me affectively, though. (though, once they get paratroopers and planes they can start doing some damage)

[Locutus]

Ranking updated. Now updated up to JellyDonut's vote (Woohoo, I finally managed to catch up! ). 90 (valid) votes have been casted (and counted) already...

Rasputin,
FYI, you have 110 points left.

Maquis de Solaq,
You voted for Accra to be included as a civ. Accra is the capitol of Gania, so I assume that if the civ you're referring to isn't the Ganaians themselves, it's a civ very similar to them (a predecessor or whatever), so I merged you vote with the Ganaians. If you think Accra should be included as a seperate civ though, let me know and I'll add them seperately.

Seau,
FYI, you have 75 points left.

gannon,
FYI, you have 40 points left.

Vlad et al,
I've lumped the Harappan and Indus Valley People together, thanks for pointing that out.

Joseph,
Thanks for your insights on civ combining.
I agree with most of them but I'm not sure about Yankee/Confederates, they could be seen as a subgroup of the Americans and, like with other subgroups (Hawaiian, Danish, etc), I tend to agree with Gramphos that they should be kept track of seperately. The Native Americans can probably best be looked at on a case-by-case basis since there aren't that many of them (that are voted for, that is). Your suggestion sounds pretty good, we could use that as a guideline. If I'm not mistaken our current setup (only Sioux and Dakota combined; Anasazi, Hopi, Cherokee, et al not combined) is a fairly good one, but you probably know more about this than I do so let me know if you disagree.

Gramphos,
Hehe, hadn't seen that yet, guess I just overruled Markos in this case - without knowing it or having a mod-status . It would appear that 'my power is superior to yours'

StSz,
FYI, you have 140 points left.
I can understand your point about the Habsburgers (and had there been enough room I would have added it to the existing names) but I still think Austria is a better name. This because the Habsburgers owned a lot of territory outside presentday Austria/Hungary as well. IIRC they at times ruled over (parts of) France, Germany, Spain, Italy, the Netherlands and probably some other countries as well (not even gonna mention Eastern Europe - oops, I just did ). So Habsburgers could be a confusing name as it could refer to so many civs. Also, Austria/Austria-Hungary still refers to the geographical region in which formed the center (and origin) of this Habsburger empire and in which some of the finest cities of Europe are located (Vienna, Salzburg, Budapest, Prague, Bratislava). On top of that, until the 1870s there wasn't a real German or Italian state either, not to mention the Vikings or Celts who never were never a real state!

Nearly nobody knows that a Austrian designed the Euro banknotes and coins (he he he.. with subliminal messages on it)...

Actually, that's a well-known fact over here and we're quite pissed about it: I mean, the Euro is the worst-looking money ever. The Netherlands had the best-looking money in the whole world and now we have to change it in for European unity pecunia, designed by an Austrian designer. An Austrian designer! That's like a German comedian, a Greek rock 'n roll band or a Belgian youth worker...

TechWins,
I'm glad you liked my choice for Zimbabweans (obviously you did, or you wouldn't have given them those 5 points ) BTW, (just nitpicking here ) Mayans weren't South Americans as you imply but came from the Yucatan peninsula in presentday Mexico, which makes them Middle Americans...

Kolpo,
Please do not vote twice. You already voted in part 2 of this discussion, no need to do it again. I was fortunate enough to recognize your name this time but I may not do so next time (with you or someone else) and could easily have counted your vote twice. I'm sure you wouldn't mind but for the accuracy and 'reliability' of this poll it is imperative that this sort of 'cheating' (deliberate or accidental) is avoided.

Daan,

Apache (20) with leader Winnetou ! ,Comanche (20) and Sioux (20) (so we can have native american wars ...)

I'm not sure what you meant by this. Did you only want to give points to the Apache or to the Comanche and Sioux as well? I only gave 20 points to the Apache as giving those other points as well would mean you assigned 40 points too many (200). Let me know if you wish to change this.

Zeh,
Thanks for correcting that. Your vote has been counted now.

Jer8m8,
You have to keep in mind that I live in a different time zone than yours (GMT+1), what seems like a large delay to you really isn't to me. Between posting I'd fix that mistake next update and your post I only slept and worked (judging from the timestamp of your post, I just left work as you posted), so I hadn't even had the chance to update yet. Normally you should expect updates from me once every 24 odd hours (more often in the weekends)...

Alinestra,
Why would anyone be offended by your list, it's a very good one! Besides, everyone is entitled to their own preferences, I think even the most fanatic patriot will realize that... The most frequently voted for civ are the Mongols but there are still 20 people who didn't vote for them. So if your vote insults anyone, at least 20 other votes should as well and you'd be in good company

Stefu,
Personally I think that choosing which civs shouldn't take into account practical considerations like that. The Arabs ought to start out in the middle of the Desert, not a good thing but it doesn't mean the Arabs shouldn't be included. The Phoenicians and Israeli would pretty much have the same tile as starting position, yet they both deserve to be in... Practical problems like that could can solved afterwards, shouldn't affect which civs you include or not. But that's a very personal opinion, I can imagine how others would want to keep it in mind before voting.

[Seau]

Here are the rest of my votes:

Mongols +15
Hebrew +15
Eskimos +5
Arabs 5
Apache 15
Polynesians 10
Dutch 10