Which unique leaders will be included in CivIII?

[Grumbold]

I'm not sure I would have William the Conqueror as an English personality. That would be rather like including Bonaparte in the leader list of all the nations he conquered

[Tingkai]

Alexander01: This is an incredible list. Well done! It must have taken forever to research.

Red_jon: Churchill is certainly an interesting pick. Britain would have fallen had not been for his leadership durign WWII, but is he a military leader or a political one? Debatable, I think. And we won't mention his military leadership in WW1.

Bismarck is also a tricky one. His diplomatic work allowed Germany to fight and win several wars, but he was never a field general.

How about Wolfe for the English and Champlain for the French.

Norman Schwarzkopf, Colin Powell? Nah, all they did was beat up a third rate nation.

Joseph Brant (Thayendanega) could be added to the Iroquois list. He was their leader during the American revolution.

[TechWins]

Good job Alexander, my criticism paid off. Instead of you doing a sepearate on each civ for all the leaders, you only did one. I'm so proud of you.

BtW great work on the list.

If you know artistic leaders then you should do them as well.

[Bereta_Eder]

Alexander01, have you studied greek history or did you just cut and paste the names?

How can you have left Pericles out of the greek leaders list?

Golden Age of Athens anyone?

Also why should Alexander not have «the Great» next to his name?

He earned it, he was the greatest general Greece ever produced.

Unless you are refering to another Alexander of the ancient times in which case I apologize

Apart from these two points, great list

[Bereta_Eder]

Also I'd recommend as greek leaders

_Constantinos Palaiologos: the last king of Byzantium

_Constantinos Kolokotronis: hero general & fighter of the liberation revolution from the ottoman rule (1821)

_Bouboulina: woman master of naval wars during the same era.

[Alexander I]

Wow. There's been a lot of input since the last update. I'm glad to see everyone's interested.

TechWins - I wouldn't have done these seperately. I had to do the leader polls individually because it wouldn't allow for more than 10 options, and you can only vote for one. This is more of a compilation of names to submit to firaxis, which I plan to do in perhaps two weeks, depending on how much people contribute.

Tingkai - I didn't do a lot of research. I'm a history buff (I'm even majoring in it), so I already knew most of it. I admit, I had to research the Aztecs, Greeks, and Zulus though.

paiktis22 - I can't imagine how I left out Pericles. After Alexander, he was the first one to come to my mind. I guess I forgot to write him down. And I'm not sure whether or not to include the Byzantine leaders under Greeks. They were their own eastern Roman Empire for a long time and just gradually reverted to Greek culture. The Alexander I included is not "the Great" one, it simply refers to all the Ptolemaic, Seleucid and Macedonian leaders by that name. Alexander is the animated diplomatic leader, if you recall.

to all: Thanks very much for the support. By the way, a few of you have complained about certain leaders being included (especially Alexander Samsonov), however, I am including both great and crummy leaders on this list. I view it as a unique leader list, rather than great leader list, and since they'll need lots of names for the leader bank, I say throw them all in. Besides, it might be fun to turn a really awful general into a stellar commander ... or watch him fail miserably!

Also, to settle a few debates, Churchill was a British military leader/tactician in the First World War. He was responsible for the Gallipoli debacle. I'll go with the majority on this one. What do you say, put Churchill in? And to my knowledge, Bismarck did command the German troops at the Battle of Sedan against Napoleon III. But even if he wasn't a master field commander, he was an excellent tactician. He correctly predicted the decisions of each of the governments he tricked - the Danish, Austrians, and French, in the formation of the German empire.

Thanks again, everyone. Keep up the good work, and don't stop the music. Also for thoughts --

Adolf Hitler, unique German military leader - he was a corporal in te First World War!

[Grumbold]

I'd favour leaving out historical figures who were better known for their political rather than military careers, particulalry if they rose to become leader of their nation. The ones who led their troops from the front deserve more credit than the ones that sat back and did the planning from the war room.

For the French I see no harm in including all of Napoleon's senior Marshals. They all fought separately at times, many during the peninsular campaign. There are lots of them but Ney, Davout, Murat, Soult, Grouchy and Bernadotte spring to mind.

I don't remember seeing Bagration in the Russian list and he is a possible addition.

[Alexander I]

I've updated the list again with more new leaders. I know there are more important ones we're missing, so keep on sending them in.

Also, since Babylon is getting Assyrian leaders, I think Persia ought to get Median and Lydian leaders, so I've added some in.

[red_jon]

Germany - Hindenburg?

[Alexander I]

Thank you for your contribution, red_jon. However, if you look carefully at my list, you will see that Paul von Hindenburg is already included (and has been since I first started this thread). But thanks again for your effort.

[red_jon]

Originally posted by Alexander01
Thank you for your contribution, red_jon. However, if you look carefully at my list, you will see that Paul von Hindenburg is already included (and has been since I first started this thread). But thanks again for your effort.

Oops

How about good economic leaders or scientists? They could boost an empire (and actually I know a few ).

Gustav Streiseman (sp?) for example.

[Transcend]

Originally posted by red_jon


Oops

How about good economic leaders or scientists? They could boost an empire (and actually I know a few ).

Gustav Streiseman (sp?) for example.

Gustav Stresemann was neither an economist nor a scientist, but the German Foreign Minister from 1924(?) to 1929.

Robert Koch would be a better candidate in the above 2 professions.

[red_jon]

True, but Gustav saved the German economy, reintroduced the currency stopping hyperinflation (and persuaded the French to leave the Ruhr).

Obvious scientists would be Albert Einstein, Charles Darwin, Isaac Newton, Thomas Edison and Alexander Fleming.

[Transcend]

Can anyone name a single Iroquois or Zulu scientist?

[red_jon]

It's their loss....