Civs included. Just the facts madam 2.

[tmarcl]

Originally posted by Pilfur
First let me say that I am Canadian, and I consider my country to be the best place in the world to live.

But a civilization III empire based on Canada?! Um, no. It is just silly. Canada was never a world military power, nor will it ever be. Its just a peaceful little ex-colony of england. It has no long history reaching back to ancient, or even medieval times (same for the Americans but they at least have had some big wars), and doesn't really have a great historic leader. Who will Canada's leader be? Pearson? Trudeau? And then who is the hero of Canada? Joseph Brant? Unique unit to Canada? Geese that poop on you? I don't think Canada will make the cut.

Well, from a citizen of the US, here's some reasons I think Canada *should* be in Civ 3.

1) Canada currently has one of the highest (or *the* highest, I'm not positive, though) standards of living in the world.

2) The UN has declared Canada to be the best nation as regards to quality of life.

3) They are the only country in the world to have successfully beat the crap out of the US (they burned down our capital-that *should* count for something.)

Marc

[Bereta_Eder]

Locutus,
I'll be happy to switch with you any time you feel tired or cannot attend. We can exchange. But We must not run this thread simultaneously because it all depends on having ONE man updating the list based on the evidence of the Apolytoners.

An advice: make sure you update the list after the posts get TOO many or the contact with the evidence will be lost to newcomers. Update even if you have no new evidence.

P.S. The detective's office is almost ready so prepare

[SerapisIV]

Outside Link: E3 Video of Civ3

Greeks are now 100% confirmed as shown in Firaxis' booth video from E3. Germans too. A portion of the video shows the diplomacy screen where Greeks and Germans are shown as having contact with the Roman player

[Locutus]

First off, that E3 movie is great! It does indeed confirm the inclusion of the Romans, the Germans and, more importantly, the Greeks with 100% certainty.

paiktis,
Heh, I was just kidding around, I don't mind doing this at all. You're absolutely right about this stuff needing to be moderated by one guy and one guy only, otherwise it gets a mess.

I try to post the summary everytime a new page starts and everytime when there's new info, seems enough to me. Then again, I just realised that with these new forums the number of posts per page can differ per user, so I guess it would be wise to post the summary a bit more often.

Well, I'm ready when you are As a kid I always wanted to be a spy, I guess P.I. is close enough


So far, based on our evidence, we know that:

Edit: once again, changes in red

100% CONFIRMED. These civs ARE in CIV 3:

1. AMERICANS - Leader (100% confirmed), city names, Unique Unit (F15)
2. GERMANS - Unique Unit (Panzer). Multiple text references, video reference
3. CHINESE - Leader (100% confirmed)
4. ROMANS - Leader, city name (capital), unique unit (Legion), video reference
5. FRENCH - Leader (100% confirmed), dialogue window of the French (Unique Unit: Musketeer?)
6. RUSSIANS - Unique Unit (MiG)
7. ZULUS - Unique Unit (Impi)
8. ENGLISH - Leader (100% confirmed)
9. EGYPTIANS - Leader (100% pharaoh ), definite text reference
10. INDIANS - Leader (100% confirmed)
11. MONGOLS (90%)- or JAPANESE?(10%) Leader * (see civ 18, Japanese)
12. IROQUOIS - Leader (100% Native American), city names, text references Unique Unit (75% Native American Unique Unit - 25% Military Leader) ** (see below)
13. GREEKS - City name (capital), possible Unique Unit (Hoplites) *** (see below), text referenc, video reference.

** There are two clues that this Native American civ in fact isn't the Iroquois: the houses behind the leader picture are small and round rather than long and square and the unit is a horseman while the Iroquois lived in woods and didn't rely heavily on horses. All other clues (text references, hair cut, city names) point to Iroquois.
*** In the screenshot Athens is building Hoplites. In greek «OPLITES» means "men-at-arms". This word is still in use today in Greece and it still means the same thing as it did in Ancient Greece.


EVIDENCE ABOUT OTHER CIVS (which means they could be in or not):

14. PERSIANS - City names (capital)
15. SPANISH - City name: Salamanca (which historically was once a Roman city)
16. BABYLONIANS - City name
17. AZTECS - City names


SUGGESTIONS BASED ON CLUES (weak clues but we report them):

18. JAPANESE (open for debate plz see the samurai(?) unit at http://viewer.fgnonline.com/fgn_medi...tp%3A%2F%2Fwww .fgnonline.com%2Fmedia%2Fpc%2Fnews%2Funits.jpg
* Also see http://www.infogrames-expo.com/screens/civ05b.jpg Gheghis Chan of the Mongols or a Japanese leader? (All votes except one say Ghengis).

19. VIKINGS (?) Very weak clues. See above mention URL for the boat: Viking Longboat?

20. ISRAELIS. Apolytoner Eli has pointed out that according to a israeli site, Israel is in.

21. CANADIANS. City name (Montreal). The city name is NOT on the map, but on a civ 3 window.

22. CONFEDERATES. As refered to in a swedish article, a Great Military Leader in Civ 3 could be Stonewell Jackson. Apolytoner Arator argued that this leader is impossible to be in the same civ as Lincoln (=100% confirmed leader of the Americans). Many other Apolytoners disagree though, arguing that he's more likely to be an American, among other reasons because (as joseph1944 pointed out) he served for the American Army before joinging the Confederates and was even asked by Lincoln to serve as Commanding General under him only weeks before South Carolina succeeded from the Union.


--------------------------------------------------------
The evidence is categorized as such:

Leader= We have a picture of the leader of the corresponting civ.
Unique Unit= We know that the particular unique unit belongs to the corresponding civ
Text reference= The civ has been mentioned by Firaxis in their web site or in interviews by their CEO
Video reference= The civ was seen in Firaxis demo movie from E3.
City names= The names of cities that clearly belong to the corresponding civ are included in scrrenshots of the game
All other clues= All other clues are reported next to the civ name.

-------------------------CIV FACTS-----------------------

+ Firaxis said the made NO official announcement regarding the number of civs that may or may not be included in the game.
+ In a Gamespot article its says that civs will be 16.
+ An israeli site says that civs will be 16
+ In an IGN preview it says that there will be 16 civs.

--------------------------POINTERS-------------------------

The city names in the screen shots can be from an extra city names list or could have been arbitrarily written be members of Firaxis. So city names in screenshots doesn't guarantee that a civ will be in. Examples: Kerplakistan & Huntsville, possibly others.

[joseph1944]

I may have a answer for the City of Montreal.
In 1535, Jacques Cartier of France became the first European explorer to reach the site that is now Montreal. Cartier climbed to the top of the mountain and named it Mont Real (Mount Royal). The first permanent settlement on the site was established in 1642. That year, Paul de Chomedey, Sieur de Maisonneuve a former French Army Officer-brought a small group of Roman Catholic missionaries to the island from France. The settlement was first called Ville-Marie (Mary's City) in honor of the Virgin Mary. But by the early 1700's it had become identified with the mountain and was called Montreal.

So IMO Montreal may very well be a French city and not Canadian for the sake of this game.

[Bereta_Eder]

Can I say I'm happy about the greeks
It's one thing knowing it and another thing knowing it

I still fear to start the monstrous download of the movie but I trust you

[joseph1944]

They are the only country in the world to have successfully beat the crap out of the US (they burned down our capital-that *should* count for something.)

It was the British army, under General Robert Ross was escorted by a fleet to Chesapeake Bay, scattered the United State troops at the Battle of Bladensburg, occupied Washington, DC and burned the Capitol.

Remember Canada was British until the 1900's.

The U.S. won some of the battle in the War of 1812 but also lost a lot of the battles. It is also funny that New England did not want war, but the south and western member of Congress did. Also remember that many people in New England remained loyal to England even after the Revolutionary war with England.

[granite]

Ancient Civs

I don't know if it's too late for suggestions/requests, but I personally would like to see some of really ancient civilizations. For instance the Assyrians or even Sumerians. The Celtics and Arabians would be interesting too. Something like that. I like the more arcane civs, I guess. The Babylonians usually suffice though.

[Andreiguy]

1) Canada currently has one of the highest (or *the* highest, I'm not positive, though) standards of living in the world.

Switzerland has the highest standard of living in the world, followed by Lichtenshtein (sorry if I spelled that wrong!), Luxembourg, the US, Canada, and so on. So you're right, but it's not THE highest.

[Locutus]

joseph,

With your Montreal theory, New York would be a Dutch city, LA a Spanish one and Washington English. This seems unlikely to me but we'll see.


So far, based on our evidence, we know that (no changes):

100% CONFIRMED. These civs ARE in CIV 3:

1. AMERICANS - Leader (100% confirmed), city names, Unique Unit (F15)
2. GERMANS - Unique Unit (Panzer). Multiple text references, video reference
3. CHINESE - Leader (100% confirmed)
4. ROMANS - Leader, city name (capital), unique unit (Legion), video reference
5. FRENCH - Leader (100% confirmed), dialogue window of the French (Unique Unit: Musketeer?)
6. RUSSIANS - Unique Unit (MiG)
7. ZULUS - Unique Unit (Impi)
8. ENGLISH - Leader (100% confirmed)
9. EGYPTIANS - Leader (100% pharaoh ), definite text reference
10. INDIANS - Leader (100% confirmed)
11. MONGOLS (90%)- or JAPANESE?(10%) Leader * (see civ 18, Japanese)
12. IROQUOIS - Leader (100% Native American), city names, text references Unique Unit (75% Native American Unique Unit - 25% Military Leader) ** (see below)
13. GREEKS - City name (capital), possible Unique Unit (Hoplites) *** (see below), text referenc, video reference.

** There are two clues that this Native American civ in fact isn't the Iroquois: the houses behind the leader picture are small and round rather than long and square and the unit is a horseman while the Iroquois lived in woods and didn't rely heavily on horses. All other clues (text references, hair cut, city names) point to Iroquois.
*** In the screenshot Athens is building Hoplites. In greek «OPLITES» means "men-at-arms". This word is still in use today in Greece and it still means the same thing as it did in Ancient Greece.


EVIDENCE ABOUT OTHER CIVS (which means they could be in or not):

14. PERSIANS - City names (capital)
15. SPANISH - City name: Salamanca (which historically was once a Roman city)
16. BABYLONIANS - City name
17. AZTECS - City names


SUGGESTIONS BASED ON CLUES (weak clues but we report them):

18. JAPANESE (open for debate plz see the samurai(?) unit at http://viewer.fgnonline.com/fgn_medi...tp%3A%2F%2Fwww .fgnonline.com%2Fmedia%2Fpc%2Fnews%2Funits.jpg
* Also see http://www.infogrames-expo.com/screens/civ05b.jpg Gheghis Chan of the Mongols or a Japanese leader? (All votes except one say Ghengis).

19. VIKINGS (?) Very weak clues. See above mention URL for the boat: Viking Longboat?

20. ISRAELIS. Apolytoner Eli has pointed out that according to a israeli site, Israel is in.

21. CANADIANS. City name (Montreal). The city name is NOT on the map, but on a civ 3 window.

22. CONFEDERATES. As refered to in a swedish article, a Great Military Leader in Civ 3 could be Stonewell Jackson. Apolytoner Arator argued that this leader is impossible to be in the same civ as Lincoln (=100% confirmed leader of the Americans). Many other Apolytoners disagree though, arguing that he's more likely to be an American, among other reasons because (as joseph1944 pointed out) he served for the American Army before joinging the Confederates and was even asked by Lincoln to serve as Commanding General under him only weeks before South Carolina succeeded from the Union.


--------------------------------------------------------
The evidence is categorized as such:

Leader= We have a picture of the leader of the corresponting civ.
Unique Unit= We know that the particular unique unit belongs to the corresponding civ
Text reference= The civ has been mentioned by Firaxis in their web site or in interviews by their CEO
Video reference= The civ was seen in Firaxis demo movie from E3.
City names= The names of cities that clearly belong to the corresponding civ are included in scrrenshots of the game
All other clues= All other clues are reported next to the civ name.

-------------------------CIV FACTS-----------------------

+ Firaxis said the made NO official announcement regarding the number of civs that may or may not be included in the game.
+ In a Gamespot article its says that civs will be 16.
+ An israeli site says that civs will be 16
+ In an IGN preview it says that there will be 16 civs.

--------------------------POINTERS-------------------------

The city names in the screen shots can be from an extra city names list or could have been arbitrarily written be members of Firaxis. So city names in screenshots doesn't guarantee that a civ will be in. Examples: Kerplakistan & Huntsville, possibly others.

[Geoff the Medio]

Originally posted by Andreiguy
Switzerland has the highest standard of living in the world, followed by Lichtenshtein (sorry if I spelled that wrong!), Luxembourg, the US, Canada, and so on. So you're right, but it's not THE highest.

Standard of living calculated how? The UN has repeatedly called Canada the best place to live (though I don't know if it is the current choice or not...) Other countries have higher average earnings per capita than Canada, however there is more to life than money...

[KrazyHorse]

Joseph1944, Canada became independent in 1867. Also, the burning of Washington wasn't the only British victory in the war of 1812. There were numerous actions on the Great Lakes won by home-grown Canuck ships, and as for the land battle, before Britain could afford to send reinforcements (they were fighting Napoleon at the time) an American invasion was repulsed and large potions of the Ohio Valley conquered, and subsequently given back in the peace treaty.

This being said, I don't see the possibility of a Canadian civ being included in the game. First off, Canadian culture IS a unique blend of British, French and American culture, but as a civilization it must be considered (in view of such a long-sighted historical game) as an offshoot rather than an individual. Even American civilization barely has the history to back it up as independent. If the US were to fall today, it would be looked on a thousand years from now as the prodigal son of Britain. The difference between Britain and the US, in a lot of respects, is less than the difference between Spain and Portugal. Both Spain and Portugal were the superpowers of the fifteenth and early sixteenth centuries, but I don't see anyone arguing for Portuguese inclusion. Also, doesn't anyone remember that Toronto was part of the British city list in CivII? There is no reason to believe that Montreal will be anything other than a French city, as it was from 1642 'til the English grabbed it a century or so later.

[KrazyHorse]

I saw this after my last post
Portugal!!!

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq
To clarify, we were not discussing a leader picture, but the graphic posted by
vgraph on 23-05-2001 at 08:45.
The horseman with the feathered headress. He's too small to even see hair, so I suspect you are describing another graphic.

It is vgriph

[bagdar]

We seem to have the Phonecians

www.game-revolution.com/previews/featured/pc/civilization_3.htm