Spoiler Thread for AU 203

[ducki]

I used to slap temples and cathedrals everywhere and as soon as available. In fact, I used to build any and all improvements as soon as they came available.

That, I agree, is "bad".

I just hate having unhappies, so maybe I am overestimating them, or maybe I assume () that most people aren't playing the way I used to play.

[Catt]

I just miskeyed and lost a long-ish post (yes, i know, for me a long-ish post means a novel ). So, I'll shorten that post considerably:

Most of my mistakes and stupidities flow directly from inattentiveness and sloppiness. The early game sets the tone for the rest of the game -- inattentiveness in the BCs means significant consequences throughout the game.

I've never had a severe worker shortage before -- even in games without warfare until almost the industrial era. Sloppy, and painful.

I delayed temples and cathedrals significantly in this game -- with so many luxuries and not much need for the waste-reduction of WLTKD (I needed gold -- research and treasury -- more than a few extra shields), contentedness-makers were low on the priority list. Every city had a university before a cathedral, and many metros didn't get a cathedral until a captured Sistine looked like a near-term event.

ducki - your game sounds like UP! I think Longevity is a great wonder in this game -- I'm guessing that it will really help in your wars of conquest.

I say nbarclay gets the REX award!

Catt

[Dominae]

Unhappies aren't really unhappy if they know there's an equal number of happies around. The only real problem occurs when the unhappies get too numerous and demand more happies to at least balance things out. Silly Civ3.


Dominae

[Bluefrog]

I'm not really sure why I prioritized the Sistine in this game...habitual, I suppose. With the amount of luxuries, the Chapel is a bit redundant, but that wasn't why it was, primarily, a waste to me. It didn't occur to me until far after the fact that I built so few cathedrals that the sheer shield cost of the Chapel could, in no way, be justified. It didn't damage my game irreparably, but Leo's or Sun Tzu's would have been much better choices (excepting that I would have entered a premature GA). More troops or workers would have been a much better investment.

[ducki]

Re: Longevity - Yes, it is good and would be better if I were actually taking advantage of Drafting, but I got scared when WW hit my Republic just before my first round of Panzers and the switch to Communism. And it's definitely helping in the fringe towns, but it's messing things up, or rather causing me a lot of micromanagement in my Cores.

Re: Unhappies - I realize that's a leftover from builderdom and something I need to get over, but I keep getting bit by ... (drumroll, please Catt) ... inattentiveness which causes civil unrest.


Re: Communism again - I like it, but I think I'd rather be able to rush improvements with money, but then what would be the point of Monarchy? Seriously, my cores are so well developed that I didn't really notice a difference between Republic and Communism, but now my fringes are far more productive, even the towns without Courthouse and Police Station. If it weren't for the lack of Cash-rushing, I'd almost say it's overpowered.

But maybe that's just because I got lucky and ended up in an "easy" position when it came time for war. It sure helped that a source of Iron disappeared and a source of Oil appeared on the turn I lost my Oil trade with Hammurabi. That took a lot of pressure off of my decision to stick it to Mao first.

[Bluefrog]

But, I did grab Longevity as well, and that did a lot for me. I was able to grab it fairly soon after it was available, thanks to my Iron Works. My rail system was far from complete, and I was able to pump out workers at an astounding rate. Cities quickly maxed out their pop...in another game, with fewer available luxuries, this might be a detriment due to happiness concerns, but this was not the case here. And if a city grew too big for its available food, it would just starve down the net turn to the proper level. Very handy.

One question, which is sort of off-topic...why doesn't starvation induce unhappiness in the city?

[Catt]

Originally posted by ducki
Re: Longevity - Yes, it is good and would be better if I were actually taking advantage of Drafting, but I got scared when WW hit my Republic just before my first round of Panzers and the switch to Communism. And it's definitely helping in the fringe towns, but messing things up, or rather causing me a lot of micromanagement in my Cores.

If the micromanagement is due to the growth-starvation cycle (and if your workers aren't automated), just pillage the RR on an irrigated tile, plant a forest, or something similar. It's usually pretty easy to stabilize pop level and food production but one has to get over the initial "silliness" of pillaging one's one RR.

Re: Unhappies - I realize that's a leftover from builderdom and something I need to get over, but I keep getting bit by ... (drumroll, please Catt) ... inattentiveness which causes civil unrest.

Have you ever tried the governor for managing moods (moods only, no production or other management tasks)? I actually find it quite helpful. In those cities where I disagree with the governor's tile choices, I'll switch them back to manual control and keep an eye on them. In any event, with the switch to communism your civil disorder problems are probably over (at least in your cities).

Re: Communism again [. . . .] I'd almost say it's overpowered.

But maybe that's just because I got lucky and ended up in an "easy" position when it came time for war.

Maybe we all don't use communism well in our regular games. I too felt that it was almost overpowered, since even after some aggressive expansion my cores (with courthouses and police stations) had virtually no corruption or waste and my fringes (no CH or PS) had a very acceptable amount - and I wasn't in an easy position when war came. In a discussion in the AU Mod thread, alexman showed me that the mod really wasn't a great departure from standard communism as far as corruption goes (for the human, at least). It was so productive in many captured cities that pop-rushing didn;t make sense -- I'd get better production from the 3 citizens I would otherwise lose by rushing a library (for border expansion).

Catt

[Catt]

Originally posted by Bluefrog
But, I did grab Longevity as well, and that did a lot for me. I was able to grab it fairly soon after it was available, thanks to my Iron Works. My rail system was far from complete, and I was able to pump out workers at an astounding rate. Cities quickly maxed out their pop...in another game, with fewer available luxuries, this might be a detriment due to happiness concerns, but this was not the case here. And if a city grew too big for its available food, it would just starve down the net turn to the proper level. Very handy.

One question, which is sort of off-topic...why doesn't starvation induce unhappiness in the city?

I didn't even think about the mass worker production possibilities of Longevity in this game - even more powerful!

You're right that starvation doesn;t make a city unhappy, but it does knock a city out of WLTKD -- one reason why a lot of players seem to dislike Longevity -- if you don't stabilize the pop and food level, the cycle of growth-starvation can be a pain, especially where WLTKD means the difference in production time (in turns) for a series of units or items.

Catt

[ducki]

Speaking of mass production of workers -
you could have Radio Towers(or whatever they're called - the things that give 25% defense bonus to everyone within 2 squares) all over the place!
And Airfields!

The 1 turn build makes them better for the Longevity owner than an Airport or a Fortress in a pinch.

[Arrian]

I say nbarclay gets the REX award

GS is glad to have him as our Econ guru.

-Arrian

[nbarclay]

The middle ages were a time of long and bitter conflict - economic conflict, that is. The problem with all the REXing I did was that for many centuries, the additional cities were all but useless to me economically. China maintained a definite lead, but by trading techs with civs close behind, I was able to stay close.

In 450 AD, the first glimmer of hope started to shine as Hannover (just northwest of the fork) completed a Forbidden Palace. That allowed many more of Germany's cities to start becoming wealthy and productive. It would still take time to get courthouses finished and marketplaces and libraries built, but at least the foundation was in place.

As the medieval era approached its conclusion, Germany was able to get branch leads on China a time or two, providing additional assistance in its bid to keep up. Then, in 730 AD, Germany applied a judo move in a bid to gain technological supremacy. China had Magnetism and Germany had just completed Theory of Gravety, the final two mandatory techs of the medieval era. But China refused to even consider a direct swap. The Chinese wanted all 300-someodd gold in Gerrmany's treasury plus six gold per turn for the exchange to take place. Germany finally decided to agree to the move - and then sell Nationalism to China for the 700-someodd gold in China's recently enriched treasury, a little over a hundred gold per turn, and a luxury.

Sixty years have passed since that fateful day, and Germany just completed its research into Steam Power (at 100%, running roughly at break-even thanks to the gold from China). For probably the first time ever, Germany is the world's undisputed leader in technology, although the AIs do have one tech I'm missing: Free Artistry. Germany is also first in GNP and Productivity, both of which are promising signs for the future, although being second in manufactured goods and fourth in literacy are less promising. The worst part is that all my technological competitors are in Democracy, but I don't dare sacrifice the time and production I would lose making the switch myself with all the races for early industrial wonders coming up (especially when I know I'll be switching to Communism sometime around the end of the industrial era).

The current situation is going to make for some very interesting wonder races if cascades don't close out the availability of medieval wonders before the AIs get the techs for industrial ones. I haven't completed any wonders at all myself yet (always too busy with other things), but I have a nice build going in Berlin that ought to get me something sooner or later. I'd love to get Smith's, as much because I don't want China to get it as because I want it myself, but I may have to settle for switching to Universal Suffrage temporarily as a prebuild for Longevity.

Nathan

[Theseus]

For those wondering about my absence, I have been playing AU 203 as much as I've been able... I had a MARATHON session yesterday, and am just short of Panzers (finally).

I might... errr, hmm, *cough*... F-CKING LOSE, however, as Persia is such a MONSTER (do you know what a ***** it is to fight off MAs with Infantry and Arty?! aaaand actually go on the offensive?) and the Babs have just completed SETI.

AARRGGHH!!!

Let's see what I can do with Panzers.

[BRC]

Everyone: Great work, good write-ups.

Catt: It was good to see what you could have done better. We don't get to see that out of the better players enough.

Ducki: Way to build!

Originally posted by Dominae
Unhappies aren't really unhappy if they know there's an equal number of happies around. The only real problem occurs when the unhappies get too numerous and demand more happies to at least balance things out. Silly Civ3.

That's one way of saying it.

nbarclay: That REX was unbelievable. I didn't think it was possible to REX that much land. Nice job.

Originally posted by Theseus
For those wondering about my absence, I have been playing AU 203 as much as I've been able... I had a MARATHON session yesterday, and am just short of Panzers (finally).

I might... errr, hmm, *cough*... F-CKING LOSE, however, as Persia is such a MONSTER (do you know what a ***** it is to fight off MAs with Infantry and Arty?! aaaand actually go on the offensive?) and the Babs have just completed SETI.

AARRGGHH!!!

Let's see what I can do with Panzers.

Well, if anyone can do it, it's you. Take your time. Good luck!

[Bluefrog]

I started this again last night on Emperor. I wanted to test-drive Emperor on a map I knew, heh...not a real gauge of how I'd fare, especially with early wongering a no-no, but so far, so good! Persia declared war with me, but they don't even know where I am yet. I pulled Russia into it, so more than likely I'm going to lose my buffer, but I might gain more early REX room in the bargain, heh.

I was going to beeline for the GL again, but I think that plan is going awry. Persia went to war with me because I didn't offer Literature as a tribute, and I fear China would have wanted it in tribute as well, so I pre-emptively traded it to Mao for some techs/gold. I'm not as horrbily behind in tech as I presumed I would be, so the GL may just serve as a pre-build for something else, maybe the Gardens, if it lasts that long. I'm finding that by researching more advanced techs the AI puts on the back burner, I can keep in the tech race through shrewd trading.

Edit: This is my first Emperor game, btw. I know I'm biting off a lot more than if it were stock Civ 1.29, instead of the PtW AU mod, but hey, challenges are cool, demmit.

Of course, this is all an artificial game, since I know the map already. I just wanted to get my feet wet on Emperor before trying it in a real setting. I love the speed of technology, but I can see how easy it would be to fall behind...way behind...if you're not careful.

But, with the tech pace where it is, and my still REXing like a madman, my infrastructure is horrid! Usually I have the GL to help buy me time for libraries, but...but...gah!

Fun, fun, fun, hehe.

[BRC]

Sounds like fun Bluefrog. Let us know how it turns out. I myself am just now working on Emperor.