AU 202: Analysis, Solutions, and Stories (spoiler)

[jshelr]

Question: With the AU mod government changes, does it make sense for a religious civ to go from monarchy to republic if democracy is going to be available within, say, 20 turns??

[Catt]

Originally posted by nbarclay
My first start (Arabia on Emperor, standard rules) was a disaster.

[Clinton voice]I feel you pain.[/Clinton voice]

My second go ‘round has at least matured. The German’s didn’t rush me this time, even though my military force was not much stronger than my first attempt. My hut-luck has been bad: Warrior Code, Settler!, map, map, empty, map, map, gold. Since I once again bet on techs from huts and blocked off Alphabet in the hopes of making headway towards Monarchy, I got behind quickly (but had a great world map! ). My first game I got 4 techs from 9 huts (admittedly pretty darn lucky).

The Greeks “sneak” attacked me, but I had a chance to prepare. I sacrificed a warrior to fire the Greek GA and sought an Iroquois alliance in the hopes of (1) not having to fight hoplites (since I had few forces), and (2) drawing all Iroquois forces into the rugged Greek lands in order to later make available the more fertile Iroquois lands for Arab expansion . When not even 10 gpt could buy an alliance I feared the worst. Sure enough, the Iroquois allied against me with the Greeks and declared war the next turn. The war was uneventful. I lost nothing but a few units, and took nothing but a few units. I did fire the Iroquois GA, which I decided to do now rather than later (and probably couldn’t have prevented in any case). I made peace by paying outrageous tribute to the Iroquois and little to the Greeks.

I REX’d, and built up a force of horsemen for an assault on the Iroquois. The Iroquois and the Germans were both traipsing across my lands, clearly readying an assault on either me (which I couldn’t survive) or on each other. Eventually, they went to war against each other (German “sneak” attack violating an RoP). The Iroquois dragged the Greeks into the fray. The Arabs sat quietly watching the troop movements. Eventually the Germans and Iroquois made peace without territorial losses on either side, but many battles and lost units. The Germans continued the advance on Greece. The Arabs positioned attack forces in place to strike 2 Iroquois cities simultaneously – it was all the Arabs could hope for on the first turn of the war. Hiawatha helpfully choose that exact moment to make a demand – and declare war when refused. The war went fairly. I took two cities and “orphaned” three others by cutting them off completely from the Iroquois core. A push to take a third city failed, and I made peace, taking the techs needed to push me into the Middle Ages and paying some gold in exchange. A look at the map at the conclusion of the war is below.

Future plans included a knight (or, Ansar Warrior) upgrade; a war to eliminate the Iroquois as a threat and to take furs and the Great Library in Salamanca; and a war to trigger an Arab GA and bring me up to snuff militarily, as well as strengthening my infrastructure. The plan required: (1) building up sufficient gold to upgrade horsies to Ansars; and (2) buying the techs necessary to do so. Unfortunately, the Civ 3 “reputation engine” wasn’t cooperating.

I don’t want to add fuel to the fire of folks like Coracle, but this particular “reputation surprise” was painful. Shortly after I made peace with the Iroquois, Bismarck demanded incense and I gave it to him. A half-dozen turns later, the Germans and Greeks made peace. Shortly thereafter I tried to buy Monotheism from the Greeks on a per-turn basis – I couldn’t do so since I had “broken a deal with the Germans.” When I looked at my trade advisor screen, I learned that I was no longer exporting incense to Germany; apparently, before the conclusion of the Greek and German war, the Greeks had severed my trade route with Germany. I had stationed troops on the two effective trade routes with Germany to prevent just such an occurrence, but apparently Greek partisans behind the lines managed to cut off the route somewhere further north. Bismarck, it is interesting to note, was “polite” and didn’t seem perturbed by the breech of our “deal.” The end result is that after giving in to German extortion, and having Greek forces pillage a road, I failed to uphold my end of the “extortion,” and am therefore not to be trusted. I’ll need to: (1) build up enough gold to buy techs in lump sums; (2) build up a treasury sufficient to upgrade a force of horsemen to Ansars; and (3) avoid becoming an inviting target in the meantime (while collecting 60+ gold per turn). Sigh.

It will be a satisfying win if I can pull it off. The game has already imbued Abu Bakr with a sense of slash and burn – we will show no mercy, and depending on the technological advancement of the other continent, we may throw all reputation concerns to the wind and raze vast swaths of territory as retribution.

Catt

[jshelr]

"build up enough gold to buy techs in lump sums"

Catt

I think it's sometimes a double advantage to lag a bit more than is necessary when buying techs. As you know, 1) the price falls a lot and 2) paying cash seems to generate a discount compared with the per-turn price

So, unless you need chiv and don't want to pay cash so you can do the AW upgrade promptly, maybe the undeserved reputation hit will not be much of a problem.

BTW, I waited longer to hit the Iriquois with AWs and had about the same results. By waiting, however, I've now limited the time allowed to remove gems and iron from Bismark. Democracy and ToE are just down the road. From that perspective, you look much better placed.

[Dominae]

Guerilla tactics

For those of you who have been following my game through earlier posts, welcome back! This is the exciting(?) conclusion.

If you'll recall where I left off, the Germans were my main opponent, with a tech lead of Chivalry and Education, as well as a force of approximately 30-40 Horsemen (plus zounds of Archers and Spearmen). Conquering them earlier was next to impossible due to the Great Wall (which gives free Walls in every city). The war between the Germans and the Greeks was being fought in the middle of my territory, and (knowing Bismarck), any given turn the Germans could just turn around and decide to slaughter me too. The wonderful surprise was that they had not connected up their only source of Iron yet (right next to Bremen), so if ever total war broke out, I would still have a chance for the time being.

So, I need to get Chivalry fast...ideally before Bismarck gets his Iron. In this best-case scenario, I would be able to just swoop in, conquer Bremen without much resistance, and effectively end the game right then and there.

Fear of the German forces inside my territory makes me play cautiously for a few rounds. I'm hoping some other civ will obtain Chivalry soon because I've got the Great Library. Unfortunately, no one appears to be doing research in this game other than the Germans and I. The Greeks are getting slaughtered right in front of me, although a ROP ensures they are at least taking some Germans down with them. Germans Workers finally hook up the Iron, but Bremen is not connected to the rest of their trade network, due to some judicious pillaging on my part.

Suddenly, Bremen's borders expand. Great. I'm told to leave German territory, and German Workers jump then next turn to complete the road network (pretty good AI, I might add). Then I remember that the Germans have Sun Tzu's, and this game (once again) looks bleak.

Desperate times, desperate measures (or at least: "creative thinking").

Until now I've been holding back Contacts between the Eastern and Western civs, hoping to profit from "unfair trade". But then it comes to me: the Egyptians, Japanese and Babylonians are behind in tech, and have no money (Babylon took out France, Egypt is still fighting with Japan). So the Germans would gain practically nothing from them, in the short term. And since I plan to destroy Germany utterly, there won't be a long-term! So, I trade an oblivious Bismarck contacts to each other civs (and some gpt) for Chivalry. Excellent.

The same turn I upgrade all my Horsemen at a cost of nearly 2000 gold. Leornardo's is about 10 turns away, but having all the Germans right next to my cities is a golden opportunity, easily worth 1000 gold. The next turn I decimate every single German troop inside my territory, and advance on Bremen.

Here's a screenshot of the Knight versus Horsemen bloodbath:

[Dominae]

A shining future

Conquering Bremen spells the end for the Germans; no Iron not only means no Knights, but no Pikemen either. Even with Walls in every city, my Knights overrun their defenses. A few turns (and some minor flips) later in 1090AD, the Germans start playing OCC (actually 2CC, but I take care of that soon enough). I normally disband and rebuild conquered cities, but the German Wonders were really worth keeping: Pyramids, Sun Tzu's, Great Wall. By the way, founding a new city when in control of all those Wonders gives it Granary, Barracks and Walls for free (i.e. a pretty good investement).

With a recent Leader from the German war, I rush Adam Smith's in Berlin (I really want my borders to expand quickly up North, since the Greeks and Babylonians are annoying me by founding cities along the unclaimed coast). I heard rumors that Smith's is really good in PTW, and learn for myself that they're all true. With the extra cash I usher myself into the Industrial age in 1130AD. The Babylonians are the closest civ technologically, but they don't even have Chemistry yet.

I discover Industrialization in 1250AD, and slow down on the military front in order to "industrialize". A word of advice: if ever you don't have enough Workers to lay down Railroads *fast*, build some before starting Factories. Railroads are better than Factories. By 1395AD I'm completely industrialized, and complete the Theory of Evolution. I'm now about ~7 required techs ahead.

I plan on taking out the Babylonians next, simply because the Greeks were really nice to me until this point (I'm not used to Polite civs past 1000AD). But then I come to my senses and realise the Greeks are a much more convenient target. I don't yet have Military Tradition, and no one wants to trade it to me. Plan B is therefore to after the Greeks with Infantry, Artillery and Explorers. Actually, this plan is better than Cavalry, due to the geography of the Greek lands (Mountains, Hills, oh my!). My attack force consists of 60 Infantry, 30 Artillery, 15 Knights and 5 Explorers; I end up finishing the game without Military Tradition!

Here's a screenshot from the beginning of the war against the Greeks (note the suicidal Explorers):

[Dominae]

The last struggle

After finishing off the Greeks, I'm expecting to trigger a Domination victory. But apparently, controlling the entire continent is not enough! There's no way I'm going through the motions of a Spaceship victory, so I begin picking the next target. Although no civ is past Steam Power (with me at Radio), I plan my attack based on strategic resources, just in case things get ugly. The Babylonians have no Rubber on their island, so I send my warships over there to prepare the way for my Transports.

The Babylonian culture is approximately equal to mine, meaning that I probably won't be able to conquer their cities without a couple of flips (which, incidentally, are really drastic in modern warfare, since you can't really afford to keep units in the open due to railroads). They've only got Riflemen and Cavalry, but I bring around twice what I think I need, just in case: 12 Transports, two with Artillery, the rest split between Tanks and Infantry. I declare war (subsequently putting the Luxury slider up way high due to war weariness), and blockade every coastal city with my Battleships and Destroyers. I conquer an average of 2 cities per turn, so the whole operation takes about 10 turns total. I very liberally abandon every Babylonian city 1 turn after its capture, fearing culture. Another Transport full of Settlers arrives in the 8th turn to litter the Babylonian continent with cities.

The turn after the last mainland Babylonian city falls, I win in via Domination. The year is 1675, and I score 5598 points (...with the English!).

Here's a screen of the very ugly Babylonian continent, just before I conquer their last city:

[Dominae]

Sweet satisfaction

Finally, here's a screen of the remnants of my two nemeses this game:

[Catt]

Originally posted by jshelr
I think it's sometimes a double advantage to lag a bit more than is necessary when buying techs. As you know, 1) the price falls a lot and 2) paying cash seems to generate a discount compared with the per-turn price

So, unless you need chiv and don't want to pay cash so you can do the AW upgrade promptly, maybe the undeserved reputation hit will not be much of a problem.

I'm a little worried about lagging too much at this point (although I am generally a bit skittish about falling too far behind - must improve on that). I am about 25 turns from Feudalism on a one scientist basis and don't have Monothesim yet. I have about 700 gold and am pulling in about 65 per turn. I need to upgrade a few spears to pike when I get Feudalism, and I have about 30 horsemen ready for upgrades (more by the time I get to Chivalry). Unfortunately, 600+ gold for Monotheism only gets an "I doubt they'll agree to this" from my trade advisor -- and either 2 or all 3 (can't recall exactly) continent-mates are building Sistine (meaning they have Theology). Maybe once Sistine is built Monotheism will decline further in value -- or perhaps if we make contact overseas soon, the tech values will be doable. As it is, I am nervous (but having fun) holding such a large treasury with only spearmen to defend at this point. Haven't seen a knight yet, but someone must have them (or is able to upgrade if they want to). At least the AW is 10 shields' cheaper than the standard knight!

@Dominae - well-played and I really enjoyed that screenshot of the German massacre -- quite the messy battlefield.

Catt

[Jawa Jocky]

Catt -

If you haven't spent your GA already you will love it in combination with cheap knights. I was pretty desperate going into Chivarly with the old Mongols, but my situation has improved since then.

Dominae - My culture is so bad that my cities would be flipping to those powerhouse civs on OCC island.

[Catt]

Originally posted by Jawa Jocky
Catt -

If you haven't spent your GA already you will love it in combination with cheap knights. I was pretty desperate going into Chivarly with the old Mongols, but my situation has improved since then.

Yes, that is an ace in the hole - although Germany hasn't had their's yet either. If I can defang the Iroquois though, and keep on Bismarck's good side while doing it (and getting my forces back north before he pulls on me what happened to Aeson), I'll not be worried.

Gotta like the Keshik's special abilities going up against Greece on this map

Catt

[Jawa Jocky]

Originally posted by Catt

keep on Bismarck's good side

Gotta like the Keshik's special abilities going up against Greece on this map

Catt

You could that b*st*rd 6 luxuries and he wouldn't be happy.

Greece is not a threat for me, but they are not an easy target either. They have saltpeter and half there cities are on hills. Ouch! Plus they have been kind enough to fight Germany while I eliminate the Iroq. They are dumb they don't want an ROP with me so they travel slowly through my land. Oh well

[Jawa Jocky]

This is a good example of the IDGAFIYF strategy. I’ve parked some units outside of my new cities so I can recapture them on the 1st turn after a flip when its still easy. I’ve captured their capital 3 times in 7 turns.

[Jawa Jocky]

If you put your microscope up to the screen you can see what I'm talking about

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Jawa Jocky
This is a good example of the IDGAFIYF strategy.

IDGAFIYF?


Dominae

[Zurai]

Originally posted by Dominae


IDGAFIYF?


Dominae

Just a guess, but... "I Don't Give A F*** If You Flip".