AU 202: Analysis, Solutions, and Stories (spoiler)

[jshelr]

Dominae's advice on civ choice is sound. The Arab workers are not making much of an impression on the jungle and clearing is taking too long.

[Catt]

From my limited experience in the game, I would say the Americans are the way to go as well -- the industrious trait would be great for REXing and for early war against the more distant civs.

Aeson -- equating the value of a hut-settler in terms of turn advantage very nicely captures some of the "internal" or "gut" feelings I couldn't articulate very well.

I'm going to start again this morning, but I'll stick with the Arabs and try to play more or less the way I started last time, but with more of an emphasis on leveling the power imbalance early due to Emperor-level free AI units. It will be interesting to see if Bismarck attacks a stronger foe -- and in any event I'll have enough to hold of a loss.

Catt

[jshelr]

Strategy in this game

Sit in the middle, building your civ and waiting for knights.

Don't research. Buy from the slower of the three civs

Use RoP to stay out of trouble and hoard gold

Going this direction, the Arabs got a big break when they could buy chiv from Germany for iron. Later traded that to Greece for invention.

Built 40 AWs, made contact with other continent, and allied with Germany to keep our back safe while we took out the large Iriquois northern cities.

Earlier, BTW, stole furs with a settler as Germany and Iriquois carved up the last of Greece. The German alliance allowed us to sit behind some walls and defend the furs while Germany and Iriquois refought the Greeks wars all around.

This is working ok, but it's not easy going. I miscalculated how far knights could travel and let Hi get one of his cities back for a few turns.

The gold hoard is now being used to buy tech from the other continent.

[Jawa Jocky]

My GA was not too bad. I was able to take a few German cities, their only source of Iron and some Gems. I also built Cathedrals in my good cities.

[Konquest02]

I am currently playing as the Americans and I think they really are the way to go on this map. But playing as the English might be OK too, as the commercial trait reduces corruption throughout the empire. This is currently one of my worst problems, as I start to regret my FP position (my fault!!). I might give them a try later (once I finish my exams...)

Dominae (and the others who played the English), what is your view about this? Is the commercial trait useful for you?

--Kon--

[Jawa Jocky]

Greece has gone to war with Germany. I have decided to make peace and use some peace time to build up an attack force and hit the Ir. They don't have any access to saltpeter They do have huge culture so I'm getting ready to deal with culture flips up the wazzu.

[Jawa Jocky]

Thoughts on Mongols UU.

These guys build fast and then get promoted quickly. I've only had 1 leader (sistine), but I'm expecting to get a few more fairly soon (palace jump, Adam's, and Army) would be nice.

[Nor Me]

Originally posted by Konquest02
But playing as the English might be OK too, as the commercial trait reduces corruption throughout the empire.

I'm playing the English but I don't know. How much commercial helps is not obvious. You may know how useful it would be as much as I do.
It doesn't have that big an effect in despotism and with few cities. Its useful now (c. 1000AD) but on this map there seems to be a danger of early elimination. The Americans benefit earliest from their traits so they would be my choice. But then they're my 2nd favorite civ and playing them all the time would be too easy.

[nbarclay]

My first start (Arabia on Emperor, standard rules) was a disaster. I've gotten so used to growing quickly and intimidating AIs with my size without a need for much military that I've grown to rely on it, and it didn't work this time. Instead of just nosing around like I'm used to, an Iroquois warrior walked right into my undefended capital while all my units were out exploring. I had a nice city I'd popped from a hut (albeit a long way from my original capital), but I decided I didn't really want to try to play it out against the Iroquois on Emperor.

On the restart, I sent the first conscript warrior I found back to the capital to defend it, but interestingly, the Iroquois never showed up. My exploration path was different, and that must have tipped the balance on some other factor. (I wouldn't be shocked if the Iroquois popped an early settler the first time.) I played a buiilder game with minimal military, planning to take out the AIs when I got my UU. But an Iroquois MW escorting a settler near one of my border cities noticed (AI cheating) that it was undefended and razed it, starting a war. I brought in the Greeks, but then the Germans attacked on the Northern end of the empire. Double ouch, since I didn't even have the military for a serious one-front war.

I managed to fend the Iroquois off without further losses, finally making peace with little regard to what it breaking my allaince with the Greeks would do to my reputation. But Germany captured or razed a few cities along the border, and while high corruption levels meant the loss wasn't huge, it was still highly annoying. In the end, I made peace by trading my recently discovered knowledge of Republic to the Germans on favorable terms. I did get a leader out of (I think) my only elite victory of the war, and once peace was established, I used it to rush my FP along the German border.

The war between the Iroquois and Greeks went on for a long time, with Iroquois troops moving through my territory to get to the front. Greece got clobbered, in part thanks to my having bought two workers from them in exchange for surplus techs and just a handful of gold early in the game, but they survived. In the meantime, I went back to an economic focus, racing Germany to discover new technologies (and occasionally trading techs).

Finally, the big moment arrived. For many years, as cities had finished their marketplaces and banks, they'd built barracks (if they didn't already have them) and then horsemen. Leonardo's Workshop was completed in my capital, and I'd timed the discovery of Chivalry for the same turn. Someone was about to pay for their past sins against me, and pay big time.

Initially, I'd planned on making the Iroquois my first target. But when I checked the tech picture, I discovered that Germany had just discovered Gunpowder. Since they didn't have iron (my iron city on the German border was one I'd managed to defend successfully in the earlier war), I decided to try to hit them before they could build many if any musketmen.

Luck was with me. Germany didn't have a source of saltpeter hooked up, and Ansar Warriors sliced through their spearmen easily. In the end, Bismarck surrendered two of his three cities in exchange for being allowed to keep the third. (Two of the last three, including his capital, were down in southern Greek territory, and the third was the island off the German coast.)

By the time the German war ended, I was eight turns from discovering military Tradition, so I figured I'd wait just a little and hit the Iroquois with cavalry. That operation was complicated a little by the Iroquois holdings in Greek lands, but I had enough newly upgraded cavalry (along with a few elite Ansar Warriors) to handle things. By the time the dust settled, all that was left of the Iroquois was an island city they'd discovered using their Great Lighthouse. I got a second Great Leader during that war and moved my capital to Oil Springs just south of the pre-war border.

Around the time the Second Iroquois War was winding down, I got Magnetism and established contact with the rest of the world. The overseas tech leaders are just a few techs behind me; I'm not sure whether I can manage a cavalry strike in sufficient force before my prospective targets get Nationalism or not. (I'm in the industrial era, and they're three mandatory techs away.)

In the meantime, though, Greece was providing a small but ugly green spot on my map, and I decided to get rid of it. I moved almost all of my surviving forces into position, taking their three cities other than Athens in one turn and Athens the next. In the process, I got two more great leaders, letting me steal Smith's and Magellan's right out from under the AIs. (They'd already had a head start when I met them since I'd skipped over the requisite techs.)

Anyhow, that's where things stand now. It's 900 AD and the home continent is all mine except for a single German city (which will be mine in another three or four turns when my elites heal and get into position). From there, a space race win would be trivial but horribly time-consuming (especially without industrious workers), or I can see if I can rebuild my forces enough and provide sufficient transport to hit one of the other continents without facing a lot of riflemen.

Sorry about the lack of screen shots in this; I may go back and post some later.

Nathan

[jshelr]

Nathan

Getting both a tech lead and a clean continent on this map was an impressive performance

[badams52]

Originally posted by nbarclay
My first start (Arabia on Emperor, standard rules) was a disaster. I've gotten so used to growing quickly and intimidating AIs with my size without a need for much military that I've grown to rely on it, and it didn't work this time. Instead of just nosing around like I'm used to, an Iroquois warrior walked right into my undefended capital while all my units were out exploring.

Same thing happened to me once. I was out exploring with my 2 warriors and noticed that Beijing was marching his 2 warrior army towards my undefended capital. I could have protected myself by building defense in the capital, but I was curious to see if China would declare war on me and take my only city defenseless as it was, those bastards.

I have a sneaking suspision though that if the AI sees a defenseless city, it becomes too good to pass up. Think what you would do if you knew (even before sending your forces into war) that you would be heading towards a city with no millitary to protect it like the AI does? I'd bet almost all of us would gear up for a war.

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by badams52


Same thing happened to me once. I was out exploring with my 2 warriors and noticed that Beijing was marching his 2 warrior army towards my undefended capital. I could have protected myself by building defense in the capital, but I was curious to see if China would declare war on me and take my only city defenseless as it was, those bastards.

I have a sneaking suspision though that if the AI sees a defenseless city, it becomes too good to pass up. Think what you would do if you knew (even before sending your forces into war) that you would be heading towards a city with no millitary to protect it like the AI does? I'd bet almost all of us would gear up for a war.

I've seen the AI sniff around undefended cities any number of times without attacking them during the REXing phase, although it does tend to be a lot more likely to declare war when it can start the war by hitting an undefended target. I have a couple hypotheses about what might have caused the increased aggressiveness.

(1) We and the Iroquois started pretty close together.

(2) In the game where they attacked, they had had a city for at least a few turns in 2850 BC that was not built until 2670 in the replay. I suspect that they lucked out and popped a really early settler near their capital, putting them in a position where aggression looked better.

Of course the fact that this is PtW provides a possibility for some new and different AI behaviors all by itself.

Nathan

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by jshelr
Nathan

Getting both a tech lead and a clean continent on this map was an impressive performance

And it required living very dangerously! Had a human player caught me so poorly defended, I would have been dead meat. But the AI isn't nearly as good at planning military campaigns to take advantage of openings, so even when I was double-teamed, I was able to build up some defense before I was hurt too badly. (The one city the Iroquois razed really stung, but the cities Germany hit were mainly just useful for the culture from their pop-rushed temples.)

I think in the future, I'm going to have more respect for the idea of not leaving border cities completely undefended. That's especially true if I get a hint of enemy fast-movers wondering around.

Nathan

[notyoueither]

It's 840ad.

Otto hit me just after the last shot. He burned Dallas and Houston to the ground (actually, we burned Houston down taking it back, oops). At the high water mark, he managed to take Miami. We took it back immediately. My cities were able to build enough horse and sword quickly enough to parry him and turn the tide. Pushed him back to the bottleneck and left him with no iron. It couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Two Great Leaders from the First German War. Both from horse (became 1st and 2nd Horse). Washington formed an Army with the 1st Horse and won a battle. Lee built Sun Tzu's.

I finished the Pyramids while the German threat loomed. The production from New York, Boston and Chicago (with some others) proved to be enough until Washington could contribute and tip the balance.

Once the war was won, New York grabbed the Hanging Gardens. Atlanta grabbed the Great Lighthouse. Later on, Washington grabbed the Sistine Chapel while we geared up to deal with the Iroquois.

We are now dealing with the Iroquois. We have been ahead in tech the whole game. Only the Iroquois have kept up. Perhaps dealing with them earlier would have been a good idea. The 2nd Horse (upgraded to knight) died in the assault on Oil Springs

Moving on Grand River now, as Niagra Falls is being good enough to build Leo's for us...

[Mazarin]

now, finally, I found the time to try this game... I started with ptw1.14 as the Arabs. I tried it at emperor because I was prepared to a difficult position. Built three scouts, a granary, spearmen/settlers/workers in my capitol and started scouting. From my scouts , I received one settler, two techs, 25gold and one warrior -not bad at all. I soon realized, that religious trait would be pretty useless in this game -for three reasons: 1.)because of the barbs (I normally play either with huts or without barbs) -I had to build military quite early and could not make temples first thing to build in new cities. 2.)Culturally linked starting positions being off, made relying on strong culture instead of building up military too risky and 3.) the closest neighbour, the Iroquois were religious, too which would make it very difficult to cripple them just by taking over their cities culturally.

So I started extremely carefully: expanded slowly, built defenders in all cities, made gifts to all the opponents (Otto attacked me nevertheless once...but only with three archers and one warrior). After the initial tech trades, I researched polytheism in 40 turns, could get every tech tat had already been researched by others -same thing with republic..now I'm the tech-leader, I'll build up my infrastructure a little more and then attack the Iroquois with my UU...I'm pretty sure, that I will not lose