AU AC Mod

[Theseus]

As mentioned in the 'Next AU Course' thread on 11/8:

Originally posted by Theseus
Hey, I have a new idea:

How 'bout we do our OWN Conquest? The AU Ancient Europe Scenario?

I've posted in a couple of places (including the dreaded OT forum ) that I have started on a lengthy reading of ancient historical fiction, starting with Crete and working my way forward up through the Mongols.

Here is the OT link:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=124412&highlight=Ancient

I also posted in the Creation forum and contacted LouLong at CFC to see if anyone had created such a map or scenario... unfortunately, nothing dead on for my purposes.

The C3C civs I would think to be involved:
England
Celts
The Germanic Tribes
Rome
Greece
Persia
Egypt
Carthage
Mongols
Vikings (maybe, if we wanted to extend a bit forward)

The key, I think, would be a really great RW map centered on the Med.

We could, of course, as in RL, introduce some of the diplo aspects that have been discussed... or define our own form of special 'Conquest' win.

Thoughts?

Edit: It also occurs to me that this could potentially be played in both SP and MP concurrently, depending on the goals of each.

Edit: I am sure we could also enlist the guys in Creation or at CFC to help us design a map to start with.

And with further thoughts/corrections:

Originally posted by Theseus
* Give Babylon (sorry, forgot them at first) and Egypt some kind of early edge (two Settlers?) but ding them somehow to represent the relatively early decline of their eras.

* Change Byzantines (sorry, forgot them too) to Crete/Minoa

* Give Carthage War Elephants at 3.2.1, a little earlier than Chivalry... Construction? Or maybe change Ancient Cavs to WEs, and give Carthage the only ivory?

* Really isolate the Celts, Germans, and Mongols, but give them the opportunity to build empires that can be significant players at the right times.

As to SP versus MP, I would suggest doing a fully loaded SP version with as many civs as make sense historically, and than create a subset version for MP.

And yes, there should be specific theme(s)... that's what I was referring to by adding diplo aspects, but we could focus on other things as well. Heck, we could even have a specific theme or objective per civ!!

So, given that I had at least piqued Sir Ralph's interest, I went ahead (without screwing up, I hope ) and started on this project... see the next post.

[punkbass2000]

Have you looked at RaR/DyP? They have many innovative ideas the AA .

[Theseus]

Here is how far along I've gotten, and, again assuming I haven't screwed the pooch, I am now ready for someone (or somebodies) with more experience with the editor, scenarios, setting up AU games, setting up PBEMs, etc., to help!!
__________________________

DONE:

* Combined AU Mod 1.05 with Rise/Fall of Rome map (one thing I like about this map, in addition to generally good geo-detail, is that many of the then-current trade routes are already in place, as well as some representive land development by lesser-developed and unnamed civs).

* Researched and placed start locations:

Babylonians - Babylon
Egypt - Thebes
Hittites - Hattusas
Crete (Byzantines) - Knossos... tricky, needs review
Persia - Persepolis
Greece - Athens (possible move to Aegai? my preference, i.e., Macedonians)
Carthage - Carthage
Romans - Rome
Celts - Capitol name?
Germanic Tribes - Capitol name?
Mongols - Karakorum

BTW, the above is sort of my representative historic order.

* Placed ruins of Troy.

* Added a HUGE number of resources all over map. This was generally a judgement call based upon my understanding of the historic RW, and also with its own internal logic (e.g., more spices and incense to the south and east). Included everything EXCEPT up through uranium... there were a number of uranium resources on the base map which I assume were placed for AI desires. Needs review.

* Added many more barb huts, east to west, cutting Iberian peninsula, and miscellaneous.

TO DO:

* Assign right civs to start locations.

* Barbarians - Possible 12th civ... spread around east to west, intersersed with barb huts? Or possibly just placing a BUTTLOAD of Barb Horsemen (50? 100?) north of the Black Sea?

* More goody huts?

* Gave Babylon and Egypt an early edge (have put luxes closer to them), but need to ding them somehow to represent the relatively early decline of their eras... maybe not Egypt so much, as the land is inherently limiting.

* Change Byzantines to Crete/Minoa.

* Change Ancient Cavs to WEs at 3.2.1 (gave Carthage the only ivory). Maybe give them 'mountains as grass land'?

* Rename Germany to Germanic Tribes. Also, give Germanics an ancient UU.

* Really isolated the Celts, Germans, and Mongols, but need to give them the opportunity to build empires that can be significant players at the right times. Done OK?

* Possibly change Mongol traits, and give them The Wheel at the start?

* Changes to Civilopedia.

* Scenario description.

GENERAL:

* Consider SP vs. MP... what tweaks for each? Which 8 civs for MP?

* Playtesting?

* Objectives other than standard win types? For all? Per civ? SP vs. MP?

[Theseus]

Originally posted by punkbass2000
Have you looked at RaR/DyP? They have many innovative ideas the AA .

Damn, that was faaaast, pb2000!!!

I had looked around at the various mods, but did not want something so extensive, whether for my own play, PBEMs, or AU.

But if they have any great ideas (or TAM, or TETurkhan, or whoever) that fit in with AU's philosphies, suggestions would be more than welcome!

[Theseus]

BTW I want to state EMPHATICALLY that this is something I've whipped out in a few hours, and that I fully hope that as many as possible of the esteemed worthies here chime in with all of the many corrections/suggestions that I have certainly missed!

I hope this gets some support and help... an idea just occurred to me: as I sweep through the historical fiction, perhaps to play (or at least start) a game matching each period as the then appropriate civ!!

[punkbass2000]

Originally posted by Theseus


Damn, that was faaaast, pb2000!!!

I had looked around at the various mods, but did not want something so extensive, whether for my own play, PBEMs, or AU.

But if they have any great ideas (or TAM, or TETurkhan, or whoever) that fit in with AU's philosphies, suggestions would be more than welcome!

Well, I'm not sure exactly what you mean. IMO, RaR would be what the AU mod would be if it had all the same philosphies minus 'keep it as close to stock as possible'. As such, it wouldn't fit in very well, but you're also talking about giving different civs different advantages etc., so I'm not too sure.

[Theseus]

Yep, keep it as close to stock as possible... I believe the only major changes to gameplay that I've suggested are:

1) Change the name of the Byzantines to the Cretans (or Minoans)

2) Change a trait so that the Mongols have The Wheel at the start

2) Give the Germanic Tribes (OK, that's a name change too ) an ancient UU

I guess I'm OK with appr. that much change from stock, or so, just not as much as the more significant mods or certainly the Conquests.

[punkbass2000]

I don't suppose you'd be in for putting irrigation and mining into the tech tree?

Oh, and I think handicapping various civs (and giving Carthage the only Ivory) are prety significant changes too.

[Aqualung71]

What about Sumeria?

[Theseus]

Originally posted by punkbass2000
I don't suppose you'd be in for putting irrigation and mining into the tech tree?

Oh, and I think handicapping various civs (and giving Carthage the only Ivory) are prety significant changes too.

F*ck, I didn't even notice... these are not part of the scenario?... didn't laying the AU Mod over it deal with that?

Originally posted by Aqualung71
What about Sumeria?

Uh, yeah...

Where do you think they should fit in?
____________

Again, I am not a reknowned map or scenario maker, and very much welcome contributions!

Sorry if I am doing an amateurish job at getting a map/scenario together, but I just got excited at the concept, and here we are.

Help!

[Harovan]

The Celts and Germanic tribes didn't live in cities, so it's hard to give them a capital at all. But there are quite some very old cities especially in southwestern Germany, the foundation of which goes back to the Romans. Köln = Cologne = Colonia Agrippina is one of them. There are other old cities (may be not quite 2000 years, but still) like Mainz, Trier, Worms, Aachen, Regensburg and others. Given that even the later German imperators, such like Barbarossa, didn't have a permanent residence, but wandered around from one palatinate to the other, the choice of the capital really does not matter much.

[Harovan]

By the way, when it comes to Europe, you can't possibly forget the Slavic tribes, the ancestors of modern nations like the Russians, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Bulgars and others. Heresson might be a good source of information about them, but beware his territorial claims, as he will try to convince you, that practically the whole Eurpoe is rightfully Slavic territory.

[Theseus]

As I've been thinking and researching this, I seem to be zeroing on on a starting point (considering RW history) of between the fall of Troy and one of the first major attacks by Persia upon the west, i.e., Thermopylae... so that means appr. 800-500 BC.

Regarding the Celts, Germanics, and Slavs, what would have been their best considered capitols at that time?

[Harovan]

I don't know about the Celts and the Slavs, but the Germanic tribes were just that, tribes. They weren't a united nation and therefor couldn't have a capital. Each tribe, like Saxons, Suebes, Cheruskians etc. controlled a certain region. Each region may have had a center, but I doubt it was any different than the villages and settlements where most Germanics lived.

There are 2 possible solutions: Either we name cities by the tribes, i.e. Saxonia, Suebia etc., or we take some of the oldest real cities on German territory. The former would have the advantage of historical accuracy, but the disadvantage, that the "cities" aren't really cities. The latter wouldn't be accurate (these cities didn't yet exist and if they did, they were inhabited by Romans), but would name real cities.

[pvzh]

Thanks to Sir Ralph for reminding about Slavics What have we done without our Germanic firends

If I understood correnctly this Conquest will deal with Europe just after fall of Rome: Early Middle Ages. Thus, I would suggest to put Scyth and Sarmats instead of Mongol, Mongols did not appear in Europe until XIII century. About capitals and city names the story is even more tough than for Germanic tribes because there were no roman colonization of these territories. Sarmats were located roughly in "Poland"/"Prussia" and Scyths are on the north shore of the Black Sea.

BTW. one small request: do not be too meticulous on real positions of the cities, like most of BreakAway Games' Conquests which resulted in CxCxC city placements in the most cases.