AU AC Mod

[Theseus]

In general, this is not meant to be 'too' accurate.... just a broad sweep of the ancient era, keeping as much as reasonably possible near to the stock game.

Thus, I am trying to use the basic civs as much as I can... the Mongols, in my mind, stand in for the Huns and those other eastern invaders that came later.

Also, I don;t want to try lay out cities of the various civs... rather, this scenario will start normally with a Settler on the starting location. The scenario should be playable as an epic game, as an AU course with defined objectives, or, in an alternate version (only 8 civs), for PBEMs.

Regarding some of the open questions above:

Celts - I think I'll use Entremont as Firaxis did... it stretches way back into the Celt-Ligurian era, and remained a stronghold, if not the capitol, well into the Roman era.

Mongols - Karakorum seems reasonable. Can't quite place it on the map, so it'll be somewhat west of the RW location, but still good and far away for the purposes of this scenario.

Germanic peoples - Again, this is a pretty ancient period... far enough back that I am thinking of the Goths as being representative founders. Thusly, I'm thinking of the starting location as being in the vicinity of Gdansk, more or less where Berig landed from Gotland, and naming the first city Gothiskandza.

Slavs - Not sure what to do.

Sumeria - I'm afraid of concentrating that much activity in the Fertile Crescent, although that of course was what happened in RL. On the other hand, didn't Sumer effectively get absorbed into Babylon and Persia by the first millenium BC?

[Theseus]

Here are the starting locations I've got so far.

[pvzh]

1. I am not sure that Crete make any sence. It will be very weak: island and very close to others, no ways to expand, almost forced OCC. The best thing to omit them.

2. Move "greek" X to the north: to the Macedonia instead of Athene to help somewhat with starting location.

3. Common you have space for Scyth's and Sarmats: just take Mongols out. They are placed on the edge: it is strange starting location anyway. Edge of the map, wrong spot (correct spot whole map size eastward) and too much space. Scyth and sarmats will perfectly make sense for the role you intend for mongols: fast moved horse type UU.

4. Restrict colonization of desert: no cities in the desert -- flood plains only, so agricultural civs will not be overpowered.

[Theseus]

1. Yeah, I was worried about Crete too. Maybe Phoenicia instead?

2. Yes, I had noted that Aigai might be a better location than Athens... on the other hand, I wanted to keep Greece and Rome a bit behind the curve as compared to the Near Eastern civs.

3. Maybe convert Mongols to Scythians and follow your suggestion? I'll have to figure out a good location for gameplay as I intend it, but perhaps to the NE of the Caspian Sea?

(Also, what did you think of the idea of starting the game with 50-100 Barb Horsemen somewhere?)

4. VERY good call.

Thansk for the input!

[pvzh]

Crete/Phoenica:
I doubt there is really a spaces for any more civ's in between Greeks, Hitties, Babylon and Egypt, unless you will do somethig cute like giving 3 traits for Phoenica instead of standard 2. Maybe move Egypt off the coast to the centre of Nile?

Scyths:
good position will be North of the Caspian (not on the coast), so their empire will not be too centred. Actual position was North of the Black Sea.

In general, I have a big worry about Europe: just 3 civ have so much prime estate: grassland/rivers. Rome and Greeks might been very easily bottled around their penesuli. Could you strip any bonus food resorce outside Europe (exept Greece/Rome) to undercut REXing potentials for Celts, Germanics and Scyths. Maybe we indeed need one more rival between Gemanics and Scyths?

Make sure there are plentifull bonus food resources in Mediterrain and Middle East to compensate for crowding there.

[Arrian]

There needs to be something to slow down the Celts & Germans from just exploding. My first thought would be copious amounts of marshland in their areas. That might strain realism, though. My second thought would be to make forest like marsh - clear before settling. And crank the turns-to-chop back up around 10 turns. The third option would be to make settlers more expensive, which you may want to do anyway.

-Arrian

[Theseus]

OK, here's what I've got for the scenario description:

The Ancient Civs Mod is based upon the C3C Rise of Rome map and the AU Mod, whose main purpose is to challenge the player with a need for deeper strategy. See http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=102887 for the list of changes. The main changes from the AU Mod are: 2000BC-2050AD timeline, providing some prebuilt improvements; no cities on forest or desert, and longer 'clear forest'; Greek capitol moved; Byzantines are Phoenicia and Mongols are Scythia (with The Wheel); Germanic Tribes have an ancient UU, the Gothic Raider.

[Theseus]

Here's a revised minimap.

[Theseus]

Moved the capitol of Egypt south and off-coast, to Memphis.

Added some surprises.

[Theseus]

Here is the current scenario file.

It's shaping up nicely... now how do I change the Civilopedia entries??

[Konquest02]

It's gonna be really crowded in the middle east, but hey, it IS crowded down there...

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Theseus
* Barbarians - Possible 12th civ... spread around east to west, intersersed with barb huts? Or possibly just placing a BUTTLOAD of Barb Horsemen (50? 100?) north of the Black Sea?

Horsemen won't do against humans. All you need is 2-3 Spears forted on a hill in their path and buh-bye "barbarian horde". :?
As to a barbarian civ, you already have "barbarians" - Mongols, Goths, Celts. Plus, if you give those barbs cities, someone will capture them (a human player for sure) and so much for the barbs.

Have you considered a solution similar to this one (see "rule changes" described in first post)? Something along these lines has been done in the Medieval Conquest - play the Ottomans to find out how it looks like in-game.

Another idea would be to put a barbarian civ or separate civs (you have 32 slots, remember ) in places cut off from non-barbarian units. For example create an oasis in the desert, put a city in there and let it build some modified Horseman unit that can cross deserts, while other units can't. This way nobody will be able to take the barb cities and they will be able to build some sort of army and organise it, unlike the standard barbs in Civ3. You might use Tundra as this special terrain type, as it is almost not present on this map. Or use Mountains and make them unpassable (put Roads as "passes" through mountain ranges). Use separate barbarian civs so that they don't try to combine efforts. The ones that did come together in history are already there as separate civs that can grow normally.

[edit - typos, fixed link]

[Harovan]

I had the same idea (tundra as special tile) for my Ultima mod. Alas, it doesn't work. You can't put a tundra tile adjacent to a desert tile. That is hardcoded and can't be helped.

[Modo44]

Desert -> Grassland -> Tundra. You can put Hills or Mountains on the Grassland, to make it less desirable to settle.

[Theseus]

Modo, your link is not working.

I did come up with a somewhat different Barb solution... I'll leave it as a surprise for those who do not examine the scenario but just play it.

I currently have 11 civs in play... how do I add 'A Barbarian Chiefdom' as the 12th?