AU501: The Power of Seafaring - Info and Discussion

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Jaybe
Never have I seen a volcano hit other than the adjacent tile! Are you sure it can possibly flow to two-tile range??

Now that I think about it, I don't recall any cases where I'm sure I saw lava spread farther either. I was thinking I read something indicating that it could affect up to two tiles away, but Civilopedia looks more like it's just adjacent tiles. Does anyone know for sure?

[alexman]

Originally posted by nbarclay

If anyone can come up with an alternative that does that as well as my four finalists did - not just in terms of getting the granary built, but also in terms of having the improved production tiles to make the pump sustainable - I'd love to hear it.

If you want pure expansion, a better solution is
Worker-Granary-Settler-Settler-Settler...

Initial worker irrigates towards cow
1st Worker complete in 3650, mines grass
Barracks prebuild
Cow irrigated in 3500, borders expand
Size 2 in 3350
Initial worker moves to mine other grass
Size 3 in 3150.
Move 1st Worker to forest
Pottery in 3100 (Deity)
Size 4 in 2950
Forest chopped in 2900, mine
Granary in 2850
Move initial worker to help 1st worker with mine
Size 5 in 2750
1st Settler in 2670 and every 4 turns after that

If you're feeling risky to be without military that long...

[Mountain Sage]

I'll go at it on Emperor. With my micromanagement skills, I'll hope to get a granary by 1000 BC at least.

[ducki]

I haven't read the spoiler, I want to test myself, but I'm not sure exactly where Nathan is sending the workers.

I'm thinking something like this:
Found on starting spot. Start Warrior.
Send Worker NW(7) - Road, then Mine.
Send Warrior NW(7) then N(8) - from the minimap, North looks most promising, and want a coastal spot for town 2.
Start Worker.
Send Worker1 S(2) to Road then Irrigate, followed by Irrigating then Roading Cow, then N(8) to Mine then Road 2nd BG.
Worker2 will Chop one of the forests, road, then road a different forest.
Granary as 3rd build.

With warrior going Northwestish and Worker improving Southwestish, I should have an idea where I want Town 2 on the coast. I want a Curragh out for contacts asap, and since we're seafaring, I think we'll need to lean towards more navy. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.


Possible SPOILER:







Also, looking closer, I think something may be peeking under the veil. Not sure, but maybe, just maybe this can be a two-pump start.






End potential spoil.

[Arrian]

Hmm, didn't pay attention to the "large map" issue. Still, my granary would complete on T30... surely I can research pottery in 30 turns, even on a large map/emperor level?

AFAIK, lava only gets spewed 1 tile away from volcanoes. The capital should be safe.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Hrm. Nathan's right, when my granary completes I'm a bit short on shields. The city is size5 w/10food in the box, and can use:

Cow - 1s
Mined bgrass - 2s
Bgrass - 1s
fish - 0s
tobacco tile - 0s

That, plus the city tile, means +5spt if you're set up for +5fpt. Unless the chop uncovers bgrass, in which case it can be 6spt. Even then, it's not quite enough for a 4-turn pump.

However, if I have the chop worker mine first, then road, at worst I've got a 2f/1s tile there. Which means, at size5, the city will be at 6spt minimum, possibly 7 if I get lucky.

The 1st worker, meanwhile, would finish mining the 2nd bgrass tile on T34.

So...

T30: granary complete. Size5, 10f. Begin settler. WF to cow, fish, 2x bgrass, mined grass (the 2nd worker completes this mine on T29, and starts a road).
T31: 15f, 6s.
T32: Size6, 14s. WF to cow, fish, 2xbgrass, mgrass, tobacco. Road complete. 2nd worker moves to tobacco.
T33: 15f, 20s. 2nd worker mines.
T34: Size7, 29s.

Damn. 1 shield short. So my options (assuming I stick with 3 warriors first) are a) build a 3rd worker prior to 1st settler; b) do another chop; c) immediately following the chop (complete T23), move worker 2 to the closest bgrass and mine it; or d) do as Nathan suggests and irrigate but *not road* the grassland tile in the beginning.

-Arrian

[Dominae]

Arrian, hope this is not a "spoiler" for you, but try revisiting your queue using the Fish instead of the Bonus Grassland for growth from size 1 to 2. I think you'll find that the faster growth solves many of the problems you're having getting to a 4-turn pump.


Dominae

[Arrian]

reworking my plan to drop roading of the grass tile.

T1: build. Worker moves 1. WF to bonus grass. Build warrior.
T2: 2f, 2s. worker irrigates.
T3: 4f, 4s.
T4: 6f, 6s.
T5: 8f, 8s.
T6: 10f, warrior complete. Another. Irrigation complete, move to cow.
T7: 12f, 2s. Road.
T8: 14f, 4s.
T9: 16f, 6s.
T10: 18f, 8s. Road complete, irrigate.
T11: Borders expand. Size2, warrior complete. WF to cow + bgrass. Build another warrior.
T12: 3f, 3s.
T13: 6f, 6s. WF to cow + fish
T14: 11f, 8s. Irrigation complete, move to bgrass.
T15: 16f, warrior complete. Build worker. WF to Cow + bgrass. 1st worker mines.
T16: Size3, 5s. WF to Cow, Fish, and bgrass.
T17: 5f, 8s. WF to Cow, Fish, and Tobacco.
T18: 10f, worker complete, size2. WF to cow & fish. 2nd worker moves to 2nd bgrass. Start granary.
T19: 15f, 2s. 2nd worker chops. 2nd worker roads.
T20: Size 3, 6s. WF to Cow, Fish, and bgrass.
T21: 5f, 10s. Mine complete. 1st worker roads.
T22: 10f, 14s. Road complete, 2nd worker mines.
T23: 15f, 18s.
T24: Size4, 24s. Road complete, 1st worker moves to join 2nd and mines. WF cow, fish, both bgrass.
T25: 5f, 30s. Mine complete. Both workers move to forest tile east of town.
T26: 10f, 36s. chopx2
T27: 15f, 42s. WF to cow, 2x bgrass, fish, forest.
T28: 19f, Granary complete (chop complete ), begin settler. WF to Cow, 1xbgrass, fish, tobacco. One worker mines, the other roads.
T29: Size5, 6s. WF to Cow, Fish, 2xbgrass, tobacco.
T30: 15f, 12s.
T31: Size6, 20s. WF Cow/Fish/2xbgrass/tobacco/newly roaded grassland tile. Worker moves to tobacco.
T32: 15f, 26s. Worker roads.
T33: Size7, settler complete, size5.

I did some odd things here, because I've written and rewritten this about 3 times now. First, I did a solo forest chop that ended up wasting 1/2 the shields from the chop. Then I did something else and came in 1shield short of completing the granary, and would complete it with 5f in the box (better to complete it with 10 or more). Then I worked out how (maybe, depending on autoalloaction I wasn't sure about) to get the first settler out on T32, but that puts the city on a size4-6 cycle instead of the better (IMO) 5-7 cycle. Suffice it to say I've done too much of this now. Enough is enough.

-Arrian

[ducki]

Can't you use a Warrior to transition from 4-6 to 5-7? I think you may waste a couple of shields, but you're gonna need that garrison somewhere anyways, right?

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Dominae
Arrian, hope this is not a "spoiler" for you, but try revisiting your queue using the Fish instead of the Bonus Grassland for growth from size 1 to 2. I think you'll find that the faster growth solves many of the problems you're having getting to a 4-turn pump.

Dominae

Hmm, maybe. Maybe. It will slow that first warrior, but maybe that's not such a bad thing...

-Arrian

[nbarclay]

Arrian, why do you prefer the size 5-7 cycle? With no river, it takes Republic or a GA for a larger size to do anything more than pay for itself in the luxury slider, and a higher luxury slider setting to support a bigger capital tends to mean more wasted luxury spending in other cities unless there ends up being another good pump or two around. (On the other hand, if the slider has to be set high for a pump elsewhere anyhow, a larger capital becomes a lot more attractive.)

There are a few tricks that can be used to deal with a settler pump that does not yet have sufficient production. Working from Arrian's original plan, I would be tempted to crank out two workers before my first settler, with the first one chopping to speed up a settler and the second probably starting a mine. I'll need the workers sooner or later anyhow, and by the time the chop-assisted settler is finished, production should be up to speed. Alternatively, if you don't mind eventually having a city on a 5-7 size range, building slower settlers while transitioning up toward that size range is an option.

[nbarclay]

Alexman, if you got Pottery in 3100 on Deity, I bet you weren't using a large map.

[alexman]

I'll check again

[Arrian]

Originally posted by nbarclay
Arrian, why do you prefer the size 5-7 cycle? With no river, it takes Republic or a GA for a larger size to do anything more than pay for itself in the luxury slider, and a higher luxury slider setting to support a bigger capital tends to mean more wasted luxury spending in other cities unless there ends up being another good pump or two around.

That's a good point. I got used to thinking of 5-7 precisely because of the river trade bonus.

-Arrian

[alexman]

You're right, I was on a standard map. So the Worker-Granary-Settler thing works up to Demigod on a large map (Pottery in 3000), but not on Deity.