AU501: The Power of Seafaring - Info and Discussion

[notyoueither]

I voted maybe. I'd like to, but I may be too busy with... stuff.

[ducki]

Argh! To read Nathan's post or not?! Gah! Brain freeze!
This start looks so good, I'm hoping to have a go at Emperor level even if it means an early loss.
So is the spoiler-esque post just a comparison of different build-queue decisions and laborer tasks in varying orders, or something really spoily?

[donZappo]

Originally posted by ducki
This start looks so good, I'm hoping to have a go at Emperor level even if it means an early loss.

If you go in on Emperor, I'll go in on it, too! Heck, screw that! Let's go in on Diety! The AI will never see what hit 'em.

So is the spoiler-esque post just a comparison of different build-queue decisions and laborer tasks in varying orders, or something really spoily?

Yep, that sounds about right. I didn't notice anything that involved building choices outside of what was seen in the screenshot.

-donZappo

[Arrian]

Sooooo torn on whether or not to read Nathan's post (as I sit here downloading 1.15 - thanks alexman!).

No, will not read. Yet. I intend to play this AU game.

-Arrian

[Dominae]

Nathan's post is not really a "spoiler", it just compares a few opening moves to determine which is best. The only drawback to reading it is that you might just copy what he did instead of figuring this stuff out for yourself. I would take it as a good example of what could/should be going through your head as you plan your opening sequence.

I can confidently say that his analysis is far from exhaustive, and no "case" he presents is clearly superior (sure, you can get up a Granary really fast, but what if a Barb camp appears within three tiles of your capital?). I would certainly do things rather differently myself. In particular, there's one factor that you guys seem to be completely overlooking...I'll be happy to see if anyone considers it in practice.


Dominae

[donZappo]

Originally posted by Dominae
In particular, there's one factor that you guys seem to be completely overlooking...I'll be happy to see if anyone considers it in practice.

Grrrr! You just had to plant that little seed in my mind to fester there until I can figure out what this great "mystery" is!

[Dominae]

Originally posted by donZappo
Grrrr! You just had to plant that little seed in my mind to fester there until I can figure out what this great "mystery" is!

Maybe there is no mystery...

[Arrian]

Heh, I already caved and read quite a bit of it. I wanted to see what he was thinking. I figured he might try to punch out a worker first or something... sure 'nough, the first option is to do that.

I still plan to stick to my 3 warriors - worker - granary plan. I want explorers. Granted, this will mean the hut will most likely give me barbs (as I will have a military unit when it pops) but I also may meet other civs faster, and pop more huts overall (though I agree that it seems Conquests huts are vicious compared to PTW huts).

-Arrian

[vmxa1]

Don't worry Arrain the barbs will just sit on their hands.

[jkelly]

Opening moves

Upon hearing that it cannot be barbs before a unit is built, I'm now planning on gambling the four worker moves to hit the hut right away, so that I don't have a 'finish Warrior -- culture expansion pops barbs' situation to deal with.

[nbarclay]

Building a worker first before starting warriors can also avoid the "finish warrior - culture expansion pops barbs" situation without wasting moves for the original worker. Of course it does have its price in other respects: the capital can't start working both high-food tiles at once as soon and it stays size 1 with low production longer.

[Rhothaerill]

Ah, but once it grows again multiple tiles will already be improved. I was considering my first build to be a worker even before Nathan's post. Glad to know I was on the right track.

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Dominae

I can confidently say that his analysis is far from exhaustive, and no "case" he presents is clearly superior (sure, you can get up a Granary really fast, but what if a Barb camp appears within three tiles of your capital?). I would certainly do things rather differently myself. In particular, there's one factor that you guys seem to be completely overlooking...I'll be happy to see if anyone considers it in practice.

You aren't talking about the risk of having the capital destroyed by the volcano, are you? There's definitely an element of calculated risk involved in building within two tiles of a volcano, but the risk seems minimal, especially compared with the rewards. (Of course if enough people play, chances that one or another of us will get hit are a lot higher.)

I never intended my analysis to be exhaustive. My target, as usual, was to get a settler pump going as quickly as possible. If anyone can come up with an alternative that does that as well as my four finalists did - not just in terms of getting the granary built, but also in terms of having the improved production tiles to make the pump sustainable - I'd love to hear it.

The biggest thing I don't like about Arrian's approach is that because he builds his second worker so late and spends time chopping to get the needed shields, he's short on production (and roads for commerce) when the granary is complete - especially if the chop doesn't uncover a bonus grassland. That means the city can't build 4-turn settlers as quickly (except maybe with additional chops). Also, I'd have to test whether his plan is workable in terms of having Pottery researched by the time it's needed; that's a much more serious problem on a large map than on a regular one (although if Arrian plays on Monarch, the cost won't be quite as high).

On the other hand, three warriors give Arrian a major advantage in being able to explore without neglecting his defense. It's a question of priorities and trade-offs. (Of course a lot depends on what the map ends up being like. If it's archipelago-ish, there may not be anyone for the early warriors to meet or a lot of land that needs scouting. On the other hand, if we're on a big land mass with several other civs, the value of early exploring warriors is likely to be a lot greater.)

[nbarclay]

I just noticed something I'd missed: a coastal city for the Byzantines can use the Colossus as a prebuild for a granary. I'm not sure there's a good way to use that fact, but it's there.

[Jaybe]

You aren't talking about the risk of having the capital destroyed by the volcano, are you? There's definitely an element of calculated risk involved in building within two tiles of a volcano, ...

Never have I seen a volcano hit other than the adjacent tile! Are you sure it can possibly flow to two-tile range??