AUSG101 - Spaceship team DAR 1

[vmxa1]

Glad to see you made it alexman. BTW my significant other, or what ever the term is for a roomatenow, she loved the picture of the baby. Lucky for me we are too old for that stuff.
Defcon5, don't feel bad, I did not see that hut for some time either. I figured that area could wait. It would have taken a real stroke of bad luck for anyone to get to it before you.

[Rhothaerill]

I have updated the first post with the current voting for the teams. I will keep the post updated throughout the day. The deadline for voting is 23:59 EST Thursday night. Please have all your votes cast by then.

[Dominae]

Nice report alexman. I especially liked the pregame and postblock planning. You clearly knew how you're going to win this game far before you even sat down to play it (...is that a good thing!?).

Originally posted by alexman
Scout1-N-N. Found that food bonus! Too late, but the 4-turn factory is so important that we will build the second city on the bonus grassland NE-NE from Mecca. Mecca will be abandoned for the Palace jump. For now, it will build scouts until it is large enough to build a settler to found the factory ASAP.

Woah! This is unexpected. Will the Palace jump really reduce Corruption enough (via RCP) to warrant the disbanding of a whole city so early on? I mean, you could probably use Mecca to build quite a few Chariots and such before disbanding it. Maybe I'm just squeamish because this falls outside the boundaries of "normal" play.

You did do your best to find that other bonus Food, though!


Dominae

[alexman]

Well, I plan to abandon Mecca after my FP is built, and after I have obtained a second core from the AI. People often use this technique (PBEM 3, hehe) so that they don't have to rely on a leader to get a second core up and running as fast as possible. An early second core is of extreme importance in this game, as we want a 4-turn tech rate as soon as possible.

In the meantime, there are plenty of good tiles for both Mecca and Medina to be productive, even though they are just 2 tiles apart.

[Arrian]

I've read the DARs, but I haven't downloaded the saves yet. I'll do that tonight, hopefully, and cast my vote.

-Arrian

[Dominae]

Originally posted by alexman
Well, I plan to abandon Mecca after my FP is built, and after I have obtained a second core from the AI.

Ah, ok, it sounded like you were planning on abandoning Mecca right away (within the next block).

When will your Settler pump stop "pumping", and begin the FP?


Dominae

[alexman]

Originally posted by Dominae
When will your Settler pump stop "pumping", and begin the FP?

The FP would certainly not be built in the Settler pump city. If I were to continue this save, I would found a city specifically for that purpose very soon, and start building the FP immediately (with a Palace prebuild).

[BRC]

Alexman: Yeah, you're right. That settler pump is almost up and running. The 3 workers running around already should allow you to get your next 2 cities hooked up fairly quickly, and keep your production up. The lack of military probably won't be an issue here, but I feel that having a few warriors/archers running around and bopping settler teams is a great advantage, even for a builder game. All in all, a strong base, with your development centered around the pump.

Defcon 5: The good news is that you are the tech leader. The rest of this is meant to be constructive, so please don't get upset.
1) A barracks in Mecca? You are not militaristic and you're playing a builder game. That 40 shields could have been 4 warriors to help you with the annoying barbs that are running around.
2) Mining the cattle on plains: Irrigate that! In despotism, it will do nothing to mine it. But when you irrigate it, it becomes a very powerful tile. It becomes even more powerful when you..
3) Micromanage. Everyone hates doing this, but until you have a lot more cities, it shouldn't bother you that much. The goal is to minimize waste by overfilling the production and food boxes.
4) Medina is, in my opinion, in a very poor place. In the early game it is more effective to get your growth and production up, and settling by bonus tiles is the best way to do that. Any city by the games or even the floodplains would probably have been a little better. You really just don't need that
luxury right now, and I don't think anyone will take it.
5) Mathematics has already been mentioned, I believe.

A little work is needed, but not too shabby.

MS: Getting Medina was both a blessing and a curse. Seems like you're making the most of it. The large amount of workers is good, but you seem to almost be using them haphazardly (that's not the right word, but I don't know what is now). From the looks of things, I'd say that you already know the tiles that your next few cities are gonna sit on. Just make sure you get some by the games. You do have some trades that probably should be made, with each of the civs. I can definately tell that your are a builder though.

Tarquinius: I like the initial placement of cities, in a 4/4.5 ring.
The game should be a big boost especially if you can get a worker to clear and irrigate them. I think you need to trade with the Carthaginians, and then kill that lone warrior. Seal up the chokepoint and make peace. I know you are going for SS, but a little butt-whooping wouldn't hurt. Overall, a very solid game.

vmxa1: I just have a problem with Damascus being founded there before a city is set next to the game. You've acknowledged the need to trade your techs around. As far as 40-turn research, with the Religious trait, I probably would have made it Polytheism, given the opportunity. I also don't understand the Barracks in Mecca, and the heavily garrisoned cities. Those warriors could be out causing a ruckus, or knocking barb encampments.

Zargon X: Sweet! That settler is headed towards the game. Found that city next turn and you're set. Can't get a lot of info from the pic, but I think you'll be fine.

Conclusion: Everyone here played a good game. Nobody would have any problems if they would be playing their save out. Almost everyone is already first on the F11 screen in the important categories. However, Tarquinius has that extra step. Plus it'll be interesting to see how people deal
with that Carthaginian warrior (Somebody kill it, please!).

[Dominae]

alexman, I just reread your DAR and now I understand your intention. Sorry for all those silly questions!


Dominae

[Rhothaerill]

I assume that's another vote for Tarquinius so I will update the first post.

[BRC]

Oh yeah. Sorry. +1 to the Big T.

[G'Kar]

Originally posted by vmxa1
I take it the Black Land has something to do wit Lord Of The Rings?

I have a sneaking feeling that the Black Land has been engineered by the maker of this world to be a significant power.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by BRC
vmxa1: I just have a problem with Damascus being founded there before a city is set next to the game. You've acknowledged the need to trade your techs around. As far as 40-turn research, with the Religious trait, I probably would have made it Polytheism, given the opportunity. I also don't understand the Barracks in Mecca, and the heavily garrisoned cities. Those warriors could be out causing a ruckus, or knocking barb encampments.

Well that is why I am playing to get another perspective.
First let me say I would choose T's game as well.
Second I could not make up my mind about Poly to research, but I now think going for Monarchy, would be the better move. I am not use to being religious and being able to switch.
Third, I am forget the details on Carth, but the others have so little to trade, I would be inclined to only sell them techs, if I sell it first to Carth or at least some one has it already. This would be the first thing I would check at this turn. So I am not sure if anything would be done or not.

Barracks is to get vets for the unit I send with any settler and was build when I could not produce a settler, so was not much of a loss. This also ties ino the barbs camp bit. I do not see much value in sending out regular warriors to attack camps. They are not a shoe in to win the fight and the camps are going to be hard to find and reach with slow warriors. I would prefer to use Horsemen for the job. This may be a mistake, but I am not fond of seeing my warrior spend 15 turns looking for a camp only to be killed. Close by camps will be shutdown.

Damascus was placed to provide two things. One is access to the spices and the other is to cut of access to the rest of the land for Carthage. I think this is quite important. I can forsee spears and settlers coming through there soon and I have no confidence that warriors will be able to stop them. This is why I went for IW, I would want swords to ensure that I can kill barbs and spears. Well maybe not ensure, but increase the likelyhood.

So I would be interested in seeing why these are less valuable or what will I gain by adopting some other strategy. Now if it all about RCP, then I should be on to making troops and camps.

[plattfuss]

My 2 favorites are vmxa1 and tarquinius

tarq:
I like the granary in Mecca and the city placement at river sites with 4 tiles distance to Mecca. On the other hand placing Damaskus there IMO will not be good for future city placement along that coastline. But you have the river so its probably off-set.

I also like the position of Medina although I read about the detriments (waste of previous flood land). Maybe I am also wrong.

However, I do not agree with sending warrior and settler all the way up north east. Though it maybe nice to block the americans they are much more efficient close to capital. (If you get them from a hut its different.)

vmxa:
+ connected spices
+ blocking off carth
+ good city placement (although I would have prefered 4 tiles distance to cap for Bagdad)

- one city is pretty far away (not your fault
and a couple of things already mentioned by dom.

I think the biggest danger in your game is that one is inclined to put too much energy in connecting the free city. Its nice to have it, if it survices even better, but I would not spend too many ressources on it.

So it is a tough choice but I vote for vmxa. Carth wont be a threat. America blocked off (if we are nice to them).

[Nor Me]

I'll try not to repeat the comments others have already made so much but a lot of them are important enough to reinforce.

Those of you who built or are building spearmen: why?

warriors are cheaper and can upgrade. archers are better against barbarians and are more useful if you need to attack. Do I need to say why chariots are better.

On Monarch, attacking barbarians is much better than defending against them. In PTW the barbarians are likely to aim for improvements and workers rather than a defended city. So spearmen aren't that useful against them.
Other civs do tend to attack the least well defended city but I'd expect them to be more scared of archers in general. we know they have more influence on the military advisor.

If you're planning on playing this as a builder, in general you're economy will be better and it will be easier to spare the gold for upgrades than spend more shields. a swordsman is as good a defender as a spearman and is more useful. It should only be a matter of time before warriors become them. While spears eventually become part of a good upgrade chain, that's too far in the future to plan on. I'd be surprised if you aren't involved in a war before then.

Spearmen just seem to me to be the worst possible choice of unit. I'd think about sending one to the chokepoint but that's all I'd use them for at this stage of the game.

Some of you even seem to be exploring with warriors rather than scouts. That does seem a little paranoid for the start and is certainly a bad idea.


Mountain Sage,

3750BC: 1st hut (NW) gives us a Settler! There are furs, fish and whales.
3700BC: Medina is founded along the coast. Worker-Warrior-Warrior-Settler (for the furs).

So that wasn't an advanced tribe? I wouldn't have put Medina there. One square SE could have got the whale after a pop-rushed temple. Better sill, a city on the hill W of the furs could have secured them straight away and could have built a constant stream of workers after a warrior and a pop-rushed temple. In despotism without a harbour, fish aren't that good.

But I would probably have ignored the furs and moved the settler closer to Mecca. That early, barbarians won't be a problem and spending 6 or 7 turns moving the settler would have been worth it.

You've secured the isthmus early. I always seem to have bad luck forthifying units in jungle.