Apolyton University Mod (Thread II)

[alexman]

I guess we will have to see how it works out, by play testing.

But as far as I can guess without testing, it looks promising. Civs without a knight UU will probably have a more balanced choice between Chivalry, Military Tradition, and Nationalism. As it is now, MT is the best of those three optional techs hands down, and the only one worth reseaching on a regular basis by the human player.

[Dominae]

People without those units skip Chivalry and go for MT, but now they can take the cheaper tech and forgo MT.

What's wrong with that?

A Rider upgrades to the new Cavalry very cheaply...definitely worth the extra point of Attack.

The only worry is if Military Tradition became a useless tech for all civs, in other words, that a 5/3/3 Cavalry is a poor unit. I doubt this will be the case: if you want to beeline to Military Tradition, I'm sure you can still do some real damage with the new Cavalry; if not, well, you'll have the same old Cavalry on the era change (more or less).

Basically you'll have to beeline for Military Tradition to get the best use out of it, but this is currently the standard strategy anyway.


Dominae

[Harovan]

What about making Chivalry a 2nd prerequisite for MT?

[Stuie]

Originally posted by Dominae
The only worry is if Military Tradition became a useless tech for all civs, in other words, that a 5/3/3 Cavalry is a poor unit.

Military Tradition allows the Military Academy too, thus enabling Armies to be built. Hardly useless.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Stuie


Military Tradition allows the Military Academy too, thus enabling Armies to be built. Hardly useless.

I think that the Academy is not a factor. I say that because it will
take some time to get around to building it and completion. Then you are not so strong (no factory) and building Armies is very expensive. Later you will be able to take advantage of the Academy, but often is so late in the game as to not have much of an impact. Note that I do like to use armies and will usually get them from the academy. It will be for tanks or MA's mostly. So I can afford to wait a long time before getting to the Academy.

[Harovan]

What about:

Dragoon, 5.3.3/80, Military Tradition, Available to all except Ottomans+Russia, upgrades to Sipahi
Sipahi, 7.3.3/90, Military Tradition, Available to Ottomans, upgrades to Cossack
Cossack, 5.4.3/80, Military Tradition, Available to Russia, upgrades to Cavalry
Cavalry, 7.3.3/90, Nationalism, Available to all except Ottomans, no upgrade

This makes the Sipahi just an earlier Cavalry (~half an age). Although this is the case only if beelining to MT, so if researching like the AI (MT last), the Ottomans remain screwed. Perhaps adding another benefit, like +1hp?

[Theseus]

I had the same worry as vxma1... for a moment, only, though.

5/3/3 versus 4/3/2??

I'd upgrade in a New York minute.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Theseus
I had the same worry as vxma1... for a moment, only, though.

5/3/3 versus 4/3/2??

I'd upgrade in a New York minute.

I would upgrade, the question is would I want to research the tech. Remember you will soon be in the next age and have the better units. Especially if you are a scientific civ. Largely the AI will not be a big problem for you at this point with the knight type unit. Of course you will have some games that make that strategy wrong, that is what is good about civ, you cannot do the same thing in all cases. Anyway, I am not presenting this a sure thing, only as a food for thought, a consideration.

[Stuie]

I think the a-5 still makes the beeline an option, it just won't be as attractive an option, thus opening up other possible avenues for approaching the Middle Era tech tree. As is, I always do the beeline to Military Tradition. Reducing the attack by one will force me to consider other options depending on circumstances in my game.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
What about:

Dragoon, 5.3.3/80, Military Tradition, Available to all except Ottomans+Russia, upgrades to Sipahi
Sipahi, 7.3.3/90, Military Tradition, Available to Ottomans, upgrades to Cossack
Cossack, 5.4.3/80, Military Tradition, Available to Russia, upgrades to Cavalry
Cavalry, 7.3.3/90, Nationalism, Available to all except Ottomans, no upgrade

This makes the Sipahi just an earlier Cavalry (~half an age). Although this is the case only if beelining to MT, so if researching like the AI (MT last), the Ottomans remain screwed. Perhaps adding another benefit, like +1hp?

Why increase the attack of Nationalism Cavalry to 7 (and the cost to 90)? 6/3/3 for 80 is still useful when Riflemen are around (as we all well know). The Ottomans retain a strong unit in both eras, as before.

And, while I'm disagreeing with Sir Ralph:

What about making Chivalry a 2nd prerequisite for MT?

Why? I see no problem with leaving the optional techs as just that: optional. The Cavalry beeline/rush would be just as potent despite Chivalry being added to the process.


Dominae

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Dominae
Why increase the attack of Nationalism Cavalry to 7 (and the cost to 90)? 6/3/3 for 80 is still useful when Riflemen are around (as we all well know). The Ottomans retain a strong unit in both eras, as before.

You mean the Cavalry unit available with Nationalism should have 6/3/3 with no additional cost, making it a free upgrade? Or did I get you wrong?

[Dominae]

Yup, that's what I was thinking.

Conceptually I think it would work: Nationalism just makes your Cavalry more aggressive in battle. Technically I see no problem implementing it this way in the editor. In terms of gameplay, the only problem would be bringing all your Cavalry back home to upgrade, but then again Nationalism is at the same level as Steam Power.


Dominae

[Theseus]

That is cooool.

[Harovan]

Will the AI do a free upgrade? Or will it just think, it costs the same so it's not worth upgrading? Anyone ran a test?

[Dominae]

Good question. I'm not really sure...

But how often does the AI upgrade anyway? Even if it does know how to upgrade equal-cost units, we would still see quite a few 5/3/3 Cavalry running around after Nationalism.


Dominae