The Altera Centauri collection has been brought up to date by Darsnan. It comprises every decent scenario he's been able to find anywhere on the web, going back over 20 years.
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Call To Power 2 Cradle 3+ mod in progress: https://apolyton.net/forum/other-games/call-to-power-2/ctp2-creation/9437883-making-cradle-3-fully-compatible-with-the-apolyton-edition
Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
The cost could easily be increased, but do you think that even if we made it the most costly Ancient Age wonder it would still be over-powered?
Yes. Aqueducts are both more expensive than granaries (given by the Pyramids) and more vital. A city without a granary will grow eventually, but a city without an aqueduct (or fresh water) can't grow past size six at all. Also note that building (or rushing) aqueducts in coastal cities with very few useful land tiles (e.g. all tundra) can be quite painful, but a wonder that gives free aqueducts in all cities would completely bypass that problem.
Good points all.
With the new input, I agree it's not right for AU.
Not sure it's too powerful or that it completely changes human strategy - I think it does give more strategic choice, but I don't think it would be "the" wonder to have in every situation.
I withdraw the proposal, though, as it is a very big change.
"Just once, do me a favor, don't play Gray, don't even play Dark... I want to see Center-of-a-Black-Hole Side!!! " - Theseus nee rpodos
Also, on higher difficulty levels (Emperor) cities grow fast enough without granaries in early game anyway and most cities stopping at size 6 for a while is also good.
1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
Templar Science Minister
AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now.
Originally posted by alexman
I think the Great Wall is fine with the free walls, at least for this mod where we are not changing for the sake of change.
Agreed.
And it's not easy to take out AI with walls in all cities in ancient era.
Yes. Aqueducts are both more expensive than granaries (given by the Pyramids) and more vital. A city without a granary will grow eventually, but a city without an aqueduct (or fresh water) can't grow past size six at all. Also note that building (or rushing) aqueducts in coastal cities with very few useful land tiles (e.g. all tundra) can be quite painful, but a wonder that gives free aqueducts in all cities would completely bypass that problem.
Nathan
Give it an early expiration, like sanitation.
"I used to be a Scotialist, and spent a brief period as a Royalist, but now I'm PC"
-me, discussing my banking history.
Taking aqueducts away would cause havoc (assuming it's possible when a wonder expires), and if the aqueducts remain, the main benefit of the wonder remains in force for however much territory the player conquered by then.
Hi Guys,
This mod looks absolutely FANTASTIC, but I hope you don't mind me making a tiny suggestion (from a Mod "Newbie" ). With the ironclad, as well as shifting it's availability, I was wondering if you had considered increasing the movement cost of ocean squares, giving galleons and Man-o-Wars the "Ignore Movement Cost" flag for oceans, and giving battleships the "treat all terrain as roads" flag. This would, I believe, allow the Ironclad to maintain a niche well into the battleship age, by making it useful for coastal harrassment.
Anyway, just a thought.
Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker
Hi Guys,
This mod looks absolutely FANTASTIC, but I hope you don't mind me making a tiny suggestion (from a Mod "Newbie" ). With the ironclad, as well as shifting it's availability, I was wondering if you had considered increasing the movement cost of ocean squares, giving galleons and Man-o-Wars the "Ignore Movement Cost" flag for oceans, and giving battleships the "treat all terrain as roads" flag. This would, I believe, allow the Ironclad to maintain a niche well into the battleship age, by making it useful for coastal harrassment.
Ironclads don't belong in the battleship age. That's why providing upgrade paths for frigates and ironclads is important. And while Civil War ironclads weren't much good in deep ocean, successors that were came close enough after (if I recall correctly) that it's reasonable not to penalize ironclads in deep water given the time span they cover.
Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker
I was wondering if you had considered increasing the movement cost of ocean squares, giving galleons and Man-o-Wars the "Ignore Movement Cost" flag for oceans, and giving battleships the "treat all terrain as roads" flag.
This is a very interesting idea.
Certainly a great idea for a mod aiming to rework naval units from scratch, but probably a bit too radical for this mod. However, we might be able to do something more conservative along those lines. Let's think about that some more.
Here's a proposal for naval units that I think will do the following for us:
Weaken the Great Lighthouse so that it's not unbalancing on archipelago maps. The human recognizes the value of this Wonder, and builds it at all costs when isolated on an island. The AI has no such priority.
Make suicide exporation missions of galleys and caravels less effective. This levels the playing field because the AI never performs suicide runs.
Make Caravels more important for exploration, as they were in reality.
Delay intercontinental contacts and settling of empty continents. This might make Explorers more useful, and give a historical feel of discovering a New World.
So here's the proposal [changes from stock PTW]:
Increase movement cost of Sea by 1, and movement cost of Ocean by 2.
Increase movement points of Caravel to 4 and give ability to ignore movement cost in Sea.
Increase movement points of Galleon, Ironclad, Privateer to 5 and give ability to ignore movement cost in Sea.
Increase movement of Frigate to 5 and give ability to ignore movement cost in Sea and Ocean. [no change in gameplay from current AU mod]
Increase movement of Transport, Destroyer, Battleship, Carrier, AEGIS to 6 and give ability to ignore movement cost in Sea and Ocean. [no change in gameplay from current AU mod]
Notes:
Ironclad needs to have the same abilities as Galleon because the AI often uses Ironclads to escort Galleons.
Frigate now has the same movement as Galleons, Privateers, and Ironclads, but it's the only one of these units really suitable for exploration, since it can quickly cross oceans.
Late Industial era naval units are unaffected by these changes.
One suggestion: Modern naval units could really still use more movement. I mean, I know you can increase it (Magellan's), but 6? That's a mite bit pokey, wouldn't you say? We are talking massive oil or nuclear-powered vessels here.
Weakening the Great Lighthouse would have two side effects, one positive and one negative. On the positive side, a tendency for intercontinental contacts to come later would add more strategy in terms of managing happiness without access to luxuries from throughout the world. On the negative side, civs caught on the wrong side of, for example, a 5/3 split would be caught outside the main tech trading loop longer. (And in purely subjective terms, I happen to enjoy getting the Great Lighthouse on archipelago maps, so you'd take away my fun. )
In regard to the specific proposals, I think they greatly devalue legitimate use of caravels for short transoceanic hops. Right now, a caravel can safely cross two ocean tiles to a sea tile on the far side, but the proposed changes would use up the caravel's movement on the second ocean tile. And after Navigation or Magnetism, caravels' already-slow movement rate of three would be reduced to an even more snail-like two on oceans. Nor do I view suicide caravels as a problem. Consider the attrition rate in voyages like Columbus's and Magellan's and there's plenty of precedent for risking the loss of caravels in order to explore. But the cost of suicide caravels isn't so low as to make sending them out obviously the right choice unless a civ is pretty desperate.
I also don't like the idea of messing up suicide galleys because on some maps, they can be a player's best hope of digging himself out of a deep hole. Imagine being stuck alone on a small island in a continents game and having to wait for one of the AIs to discover Astronomy and come looking for you before you can have contact with anyone. It's no big deal if one of six AI opponents gets stuck like that because other AIs can still provide some degree of challenge, but having the human player get stuck like that could make a real mess out of a game. And then there's the fact that moving one's galleys would be a lot more hassle in general if they couldn't move through sea tiles during the turn without losing speed, and the fact that probing the edges for likely-looking future crossing points would be even more of a nightmare.
One last point: last I saw, AIs were perfectly willing to escort galleys and caravels with frigates if they didn't have an ironclad handy.
A more minimalist approach to reducing early contact would be simply to take the "Safe Sea Travel" flag away from the Great Lighthouse (and probably cut its cost by 100 shelds since that's a huge chunk of its value). That would destroy most situations where an AI on one continent can use the Lighthouse to make contact with the other continent on a "continents" map, and would render more land masses unreachable on Archipelago settings. And while a human player could theoretically use suicide galleys to cross anywhere he can cross now, in practice, the losses trying to find a crossing point would tend to be catastrophic without the ability to end turns on sea tiles safely.
How about leaving the "safe sea travel" power of the Great Lighthouse intact and removing the bonus movement? It's the combination that really makes the Wonder a no-brainer for human players. This would have the nice side-effect of making Magellan's unique with respect to its ability.
Dominae
And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
). With the ironclad, as well as shifting it's availability, I was wondering if you had considered increasing the movement cost of ocean squares, giving galleons and Man-o-Wars the "Ignore Movement Cost" flag for oceans, and giving battleships the "treat all terrain as roads" flag. This would, I believe, allow the Ironclad to maintain a niche well into the battleship age, by making it useful for coastal harrassment.
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