AU mod: Cavalry

[sabrewolf]

well, the new patch changes _everything_!

a fortified musketman in a size 7-12 grassland town (4*(1+.1+.25+.5) = 7.4 defence) now has a clear advantage. in a city (4*(1+.1+.25) = 5.4) a more or less equal chance. cavarly won't have any chance against riflemen.

therefor i think a 6,3,3 are good stats.

with these changes, let's rediscuss everything from the beginning...

[alexman]

It's true! Veteran Cavalry after the patch will have just a 25% chance to defeat a Veteran Musket fortified in a grassland city, down from 39%.

And against Riflemen, forget it: down to 3% from 20%.

This is not necessarily a good thing for balance though, as Cavalry now defeats a fortified Veteran pikeman 90% of the time, up from 70%, and the AI has usually has mostly pikemen to offer against the human.

[alexman]

Put a different way, Cavalry versus fortified Spearmen are now more effective than Tanks versus fortified Spearmen used to be...

[lockstep]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
well, the new patch changes _everything_!

Nevertheless, this discussion was excellent.

( ... waiting for the beta patch to try out 6.3.3 Cavalry vs. Musketmen ... )

[Myrddin]

And don't forget to look at what a Cavalry Army can do (extra attack, movement, pillaging etc)

[sabrewolf]

oh, yeah... that makes armies even less beatable... even less HP losses in every battle. wow

[lockstep]

alexman, now that the combat changes have been cut from the beta patch, you might as well start a poll about taking 1 attack point away from Cavalry, Cossack, Siphai.

[alexman]

Any panel member should feel free to set up a poll after the discussion is done, but here it goes anyway:

AU mod panel: You have 24 hours to vote on the following:

1. Yes/No: Reduce attack factor of Cavalry, Cossack, and Sipahi by 1?
2. Yes/No: If 1. results in a "Yes", reduce attack factor of Sipahi by an extra 1, and its cost by 10 shields?
3. Yes/No: If 1. results in a "Yes", add new Cavalry upgrade units to Nationalism, with identical stats as current Cavalry, Cossack, Sipahi?
4. Yes/No: If 3. results in a "Yes", increase cost of Nationalism Cavalry units by 10 shields.
5. Yes/No: If 3. results in a "Yes", use unique graphics for the Cavalry units at Military Tradition. This means maintaining a separate, second version of the AU mod with no extra graphics but identical game play.

More decisions to follow, concerning graphics, if the result of item 5. is "Yes".

[alexman]

My votes:
1.Yes
2.No
3.Yes
4.No
5.Yes

[Nor Me]

1.Yes
2.No
3.Yes
4.No
5.Yes

[Dominae]

1. Yes.
2. No.
3. No.
4. No.
5. No.

How about we keep it simple for now (i.e. reduce Cavalry Attack to 5, and see how that goes)?

[Stuie]

1. Yes
2. No
3. No
4. No
5. No

Even though I've been playing with the upgrade at Nationalism in my own mod, I tend to agree with Theseus and Dominae that a more conservative approach is best for the AU Mod. Thus, I'd like to try just the reduction in Cavalry/UU strength, and reevaluate a possible upgrade at Nationalism at a later date.

[Theseus]

1. Yes.
2. No.
3. No.
4. No.
5. No.

[lockstep]

1: YES
2: NO
3: NO
4: YES
5: YES

Regarding '3': A Light Cavalry - Cavalry upgrade should be reconsidered at a later date. I'm all against a 'Light Cavalry / Light Siphai' approach because this means creating a second UU for two civs.

Regarding '5': I'm only for distinct graphics for the Light Cavalry, because that's the only new unit I'd possibly want to include.

[Jaguar]

I strongly agree with a simple reduction to 5-3-3. However, a cost reduction of ten could be in order.