OCC Fortnight 3rd Edition - Results and Logs

[Graag]

Ok. As I said a while ao I had a good start. But the problem with Good Starts is that they are an invitation for stupidity. I'm not entirely sure where I went wrong, but I didn't get to old AC 'till 1779. Ought to have been a lot earlier. And without further ado, the log.

First, as has become custom, my key stats for the table:

AC Landing: 1779

Mon: 2850 BC
Repub: 1050 BC
Demo: 225 AD

Col: 2150 BC
Copes: 600 BC
Shakes: 225 AD
Newtons: 320 AD
Darwin: 840 AD
Apollo: 1440 AD

First Trade: 1200 BC
Second: 1200 BC
Third: 1150 BC

Turns: I don't know

Size 12: 825 BC
Size 21: 540 AD

Now, from looking at the highlights other than the landing date you'd have thought I'd done well. Well I didn't. Here's the log:

BC
4000 Hut, Chariot (NONE)
3900 Hut, Archer (NONE)
Build OrangegroveCity
3850 Hut, Nomads (rock n roll)
3700 hut, Archers (not NONE)
3650 Alphabet
Build Warrior
Hut, Chariot (NONE, someone must be close)
3550 Vikings, Peace, Writing
3350 Build Warrior
Begin Colossus
In the last three turns my power has gone from Moderate, to Weak, to Mighty!
3250 Hut, Code of Laws
3050 Romans, Peace, Horseback Riding
3000 Mongols, Alliance, 50 gold
2950 Hut, Monarchy (rock and roll, baby)
Revolution
2900 Aztecs, Alliance
Hut, Currency
2850 In Monarchy
2800 Hut, Archers (NONE)
2700 Hut, Mapmaking
Vikings, Share Maps
Aztecs, Maps
2650 Romans & Mongols, Maps
Vikings, 50 gold
2600 Hut, Horseman (NONE)
2550 Americans, Peace, 50 gold, Masonry, Mysticism
Hut, Horseman (NONE)
2500 Americans, Pottery
This is really starting to annoy me. My power is supreme, I give away pretty much all tech I've got and no bugger will ally with me. Why?
Hut, 50 gold
Barb Leader, 150 gold
2450 Zulus, 50 gold, Peace, Maps
2400 NONE Archer gets home, Disband Warrior
2300 Hut, Construction (and still no more alliances damn it. and no tributes!!)
2250 Aztecs, 25 gold
2150 Build Colossus
NONE Chariot gets home, Disband Warrior
Trade
2100 Romans, Alliance (eh? they've been refusing for the past 30 or whatever turns)
Switch production from Library to Caravan
2000 Hut, 50 gold
Aztecs, 50 gold
1950 Hut, 100 gold
1900 Build Caravan, Hides
Zulus, 25 gold
1850 Hut, Mathematics
1800 Build Caravan, Gold
1750 Vikings, 25 gold
Americans, 50 gold
1700 Build Caravan, Coal
Hut, 50 gold
Romans, 25 gold
1550 Build Library
Aztecs, 50 gold
1500 Astronomy (should have gone for lit, thought an AI would have it by now)
1400 Romans, 25 gold
Build Temple
1300 Aztecs, Literacy
1250 Americans & Zulus, 50 gold
1200 Gold Caravan to Tenochtitlan, 108 gold
Coal to Trondheim, 60 gold
Vikings, The Wheel
1150 Build Colosseum
Philosophy, The Republic, Revolution
Hides Caravan to Tenochtitlan, 96 gold
1050 Build Aquaduct
In Republic
Begin Cope's
Barb Leader, 150 gold
1000 WLTCD begins, size 6
950 Romans, 25 gold
925 Medicine
Remember I have a supported Archer, Disband it.
900 Mongols, 50 gold (finally. they are so glum these days)
875 Aztecs, 25 gold
850 Aztecs, 25 gold (I love those Aztecs)
825 WLTCD ends, size 12
Information:
Rates = 00/80/20
Tech/Turn = 5
Gold = 342
Arrows = 68
Sheilds = 11
Food Surplus = 2
800 Romans, 25 gold, Iron Working
775 Aztecs, 75 gold (unusual amount)
750 University
725 Aztecs, 100 gold (they love me!)
675 Aztecs & Romans, Maps
650 Aztecs, 50 gold
600 Build Copernicus' Observatory (now 3 turn/tech)
Romans, 50 gold
550 Aztecs, Banking
525 Aztecs, 50 gold
450 Sanitation
400 Aztecs, 50 gold
350 Invention
300 Aztecs & Romans, 50 gold
Mongols, 100 gold
250 Democracy, Revolution
Zulus, 100 gold
Vikings & Americans, 150 gold
This turn has made me realise how much I ought to be allied to more civs. What did I do wrong? I am losing out on a lot of gold here. I think if I don't get a good landing date it will be primarily because I was not allied to more than 3 civs.
225 Build Shakespeare's Theatre
Sell Colosseum
In Democracy
Aztecs & Mongols, 25 gold
200 Sell Temple
175 Build Sewer System
WLTPD begins, size 12
150 Aztecs, 50 gold
125 Chemistry
75 Romans & Aztecs, 50 gold
25 WLTPD ends, size 17
Gunpowder

AD
1 Build University
20 Aztecs, 50 gold
Mongols, 150 gold
Zulus, Economics, Alliance (agreed to crush Americans), 100 gold
40 Explosives
Aztecs, Seafearing (finally!)
Americans, Cease Fire
60 Aztecs, 50 gold
80 Metallurgy
100 Mongols, 50 gold
120 Navigation
140 Aztecs & Romans, 50 gold
160 Physics
200 Zulus, 25 gold
220 Magnetism
240 Americans, Peace, Maps
Zulus, Maps
280 Electricity
300 Aztecs, 100 gold
320 Build Issac Newton's Observatory
Mongols, 50 gold
340 Refrigeration
360 Barb Leader, 150 gold
Build Engineers
Zulus, 100 gold
380 Build Engineers
420 Build Supermarket
WLTPD begins, size 15
All Allies, 50 gold
440 Build Harbour
460 Aztecs, Bridge Building, 50 gold
Romans, Maps
480 Build Marketplace (yes, I waited this long)
500 Railroad
520 Aztecs, 50 gold
540 Aztecs, 100 gold
(OrangegroveCity is size 21)
560 Build Caravan, Wine
580 Build Caravan, Copper
Industrialisation
620 WLTPD ends, size 24
Romans, 100 gold
640 The Corporation
660 Americans, Maps
Zulus & Mongols, 50 gold
680 Refining
Aztecs, 100 gold
700 Romans, 50 gold
720 Steel
760 Combustion
800 Automobile (Americans built Leo's last turn, lol)
Romans, Conscription
820 Copper Caravan to Tenochtitlan, 96 gold
840 Build Darwin's Voyage
Electronics, Mass Production
Aztecs, Fuedalism
Wine Caravan to Tenochtitlan, 234 gold
860 Romans and Zulus, 50 gold
Mongols, 100 gold
880 Build Mass Transit
Chivalry
900 Mongols, 50 gold
920 Leadership
Romans, 100 gold
940 Build Superhighways (science at 100% would yeild 900 beakers exactly)
960 Tactics
Mongol, Zulus & Romans, 50 gold
1000 Machine Tools
1020 Build factory
1040 Miniaturization
1080 Computers
Romans & Zulus, 50 gold
Mongols, 100 gold
1100 Build Research Lab
1120 Flight
1160 Radio
Build Hydro Plant
Realize I ain't gonna get bigger, Sell Sewer System
1180 Sell Aquaduct
1200 Advanced Flight
Build Offshore Platform
1240 Rocketry
1280 Space Flight (production currently 50)
Romans, 50 gold
Aztecs, Communism
1320 Plastics
1380 Atomic Theory
1440 Build Apollo Program
Nuclear Fission
Hmm. Production of 58. I seem to have forgotten Manufacturing Plant.
1460 AI has started swapping techs like crazy. They aren't happy with me.
1480 Build 1 Structural
Expel Viking Diplo, no dount on it's way to steal SF
1500 Mobile Warfare (finally
1520 Robotics (again, finally)
1540 Nuclear Fission
Expel another Viking Diplo
1550 Build Manufacturing Plant (production now 83. phew)
1570 The Laser
1600 Superconductor
Expel another Vik Dip
1630 Fusion
1660 Vikings Sneak Attack (been waiting for it to happen). NONE settler dead.
Kill a Vik Dip and a Cavalry
1670 Guerrilla Warfare
Build Armor
1680 Disband Triereme
1690 Disband Chariot
1730 Romans cancel Alliance
1740 Sell University
1764 Launch. At bloody last. I thought I was gonna get a really good landing date. Oh well.
1779 Land. Oh dear. I thought it would be a great victory for me. AI didn't put up much of a fight. The Vikings sent one or two units over and noone else did anything at all.

Right, I know it's a silly and demanding question, but where did I go wrong? I wanted to have more alliances, I never built a stock exchange, I forgot about manufacturing plants and so on. What should I remember not to do next time? Anyway, this was a good one, I enjoyed it, but as I've said I was dissapointed.

Graag

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You should never smoke in pyjamas, you could start a fire and burn your face

[Tom DeMille]

Well, Graag, you certainly got to Space Flight quickly. You just didn't have the 80 production needed to get the space ship out the door. I had a similar problem, but was slightly ahead of the game, having researched robotics before space flight. Paul was able to get to AC 40 turns after discovering space flight, which is the fastest possible. It took me 49, and it took you something like 60. Otherwise, great game. You got the caravans out the door very early.

[Paul]

Table updated. And Tom was right. If you had built a third engineer and a manufacturing plant you might even have beaten him to AC. The difference between 1705 and 1779 may look big but it is only 13 turns.
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited May 06, 2000).]

[Aurelius]

Well! Took forever to find the other civs due to a hut barbarian killing my trireme's chariot and my first contact, the Vikings, got destroyed by elusive Mongol barbarians. Also Zulus and Romans were destroyed by ragin' barbs. Here's the pregame first thoughts and the preview log and the game log:

First Thoughts

4000 BC I'm thinking of founding my city of Zwolle after sending the trireme south to discover wheat and chariot south on the river discovering gold! I consider it fortunate to have then gone north to gather a none archer mercenary within the turn. The archer found Spice! But then the Trireme found a hut! Things can only go downhill:

Pregame Log

Establishing new goverments:
Monarchy-2650 -2650
Republic -600 -520
Democracy +860 +940
Wonders
Colossus -3100 -1600
Copernicus +80 +280
Shakespeare +280 +500
Newton +760 +980
Darwin +1640 +1660
Apollo +1774 +1778
Trade routes
First -50
Second +20
Third +860 ! second attempt at third caravan!
Scientific discoveries - dates
Trade -1450
Cons -825
San +500
Refr +1280
Auto +1610
Comp +1700
SF +1776
AC +1851
City population
Size 12 -250
Size 19 +720
Size 21 +1600 (?)
Size 24 +1630
Version 2.42

Game log

4000 BC Bronze/Ceremonial/WC-pre-working settler near wheat. None Chariot/None Archer.
3800 BC Hut 50gd
3750 BC Hut archer
3700 BC Founded the City of Zwolle
3600 BC Hut Alpha!
3600 BC Vikings-Peace/refused alliance/tributed mapmaking
3300 BC Most uncanny … rush bought settler and then found a none settler in a hut. Don't know whether to apply the settler shields to colossus or work the land fast. Should have checked the hut first but how often do we find nomads?!
3250 BC Settler to warrior
3200 BC Code of Laws
3200 BC Hut Pottery
3150 BC Vikings destroyed by Mongols (and barbarians )
3150 BC Size 2 and two settlers working two special mines
3100 BC Warrior to Colossus
2900 BC Romans destroyed by barbarians
2900 BC Hut Barb in hills!
2850 BC Lost Chariot to barb horsy
2650 BC Monarchy researched and established
2600 BC Zulu's destroyed by barbarians
2600 BC Hut Zwolle Archer-good news as it is so far from home.
2300 BC Size 3
2150 BC Writing to Currency
2000 BC Barbarian uprising-first barbarians to visit this peninsula
1900 BC Livy's Epic History: OCCer's most advanced
1800 BC Currency to Trade
1700 BC Barbarian Booty (Total: 225gd)
1600 BC Colossus to Library
1450 BC Trade to Masonry
1150 BC Americans undertaken Pyramids
1100 BC Library to Marketplace
1000 BC Masonry to Construction
1050-BCBarbarian horse
1000 BC Dead Archer
950--BC Hut Chariot
925--BC Hut Mysticism
825 BC Construction to Literacy
750 BC Hut Feudalism
600 BC Literacy to Republic
600 BC Aztecs-Peace/traded for Republic/Refused alliance/tributed 150gd
625 BC Researching Philosophy
550(?)BC Revolting
525 BC Republic Established
525 BC Have built Marketplace/Granary/Pikeman/ and working on Temple
500 BC Temple to Coliseum and disbanded warrior
500 BC Commencing WLTCD Still size three
475 BC Killed Barbarian leader (total: 258gd)
450 BC Coliseum to aqueduct
350 BC Gifted Aztecs two sciences but still declined alliance/shared maps
350 BC Sold Granary to keep pace on WCTCD Size 8
325 BC Aqueduct to Bank
325 BC Philosophy to Banking to Mathematics
275 BC Emmisary from MyWifeHatesCiv of the Americas
Peace-traded for Wheel and Horseback Riding/Gave Writing and Republic/Neutral to Worshipful
Shared Maps but MWHC considers an Alliance only intriguing. Seems to be preoccupied with
Barbarians from defunct Zulu. Pity, he seems an honorable man.
275 BC Aztecs alliance for Philosophy….forgot to give away the science house but got 50 gd.
250 BC Size 12 WLTCD ends
150 BC Aztecs Request War with Mongols. For 50gd, we are persuaded.
150 BC Mathematics to Astronomy
125 BC Bank to Caravan….very late for Zwolle Traders
50 BC Caravan (Beads) to Caravan
25 BC Mongol cease fire for Construction
20 AD Caravan(Copper) to Caravan
80 AD Happy day in Zwolle: Third Caravan and Astronomy to Medicine Commencing Copernicus
120 AD Barbarians have captured Philadelphia and Boston from MWHC
160 AD Generous Zwolle Traders give away the House of Science to Aztec Allies/ Receive 100gd gift
240 AD Zwolle Celebrates belated first Caravan (240gd to Aztec Ten')
260 AD Medicine to Engineering
280 AD Copernicus built and Commencing Shakespeare
300 AD Mongols have situated themselves on a fortress of MY gold! Got Peace.
320 AD Mongols Break Peace! Typical. Atleast we can use the gold again. None Archer dies
320 AD Decided to avoid mongols trade and diverted gold caravan to MWHC
320 AD Engineering to Sanitation
400 AD Barbarian destroys Gold Caravan! Third Caravan! I am Pissed!
420 AD Hut Invention
420 AD MWHC-trade for seafaring and ironworking/Gave away lots of Science
420 AD Caravan to Aztec Teo' for 202gd
460 AD Finally sold Temple! Don't seem to have that luxury has been at 20% since the last WCTCD
480 AD Sold Coliseum
500 AD Shakes to coliseum to switch to Sewer System
500 AD Sanitation to University
520 AD Commencing WLTCD
540 AD Sewer System to Harbor
680 AD Habor built Lord MacCauleys Largest civilizations: Mongols/OCC'er! /Americans/Aztecs to build 680 AD University to ToG
680 AD Carvans(coal) to caravan Disbanded settler
720 AD Caravan to University End WCTCD size 19
760 AD University to Issacs and ToG to Gunpowder (want those engineers!)
820 AD Gunpowder to Chemistry
820 AD Aztec /got Polythesism….yuck
820 AD MWHC given many gifts, but seems independent
860 AD Third Caravan(Coal) to Washington
860 AD MWHC/traded for Democracy!
940 AD Democracy established
960 AD Chemistry to Explosives (gave away all science to Aztecs/no gifts
980 AD Issacs to caravan
1000 AD Explosives to Metallurgy
1040 AD Metallurgy to Bridgebuilding
1080 AD Bridge Building to Navigation
1100 AD Gave away all science to MWHC and the Aztecs
1120 AD Navigation to Physics
1160 AD Physics to Magnetism
1200 AD Magnetism to Electricity
1200 AD 1st Engineer (got 5 caravans)
1240 AD Electricity to Refrigeration
1280 AD Refrigeration to Economics
1320 AD Economics to Steam Engine
1320 AD 2nd Engineer to Supermarket
1360 AD Steam Engine to Railroad
1360 AD Supermarket to Stock exchange
1380 AD Gaveaway science to Aztec and MWHC
1400 AD Railroad to Industrialization
1400 AD Stock exchange to Camel
1440 AD Industrialization to Corporation
1480 AD Corporation to Electronics
1480 AD Freight to factory
1510 AD Electronics to Refining
1510 AD MWHC Chivalry for Industrialization -we refused to give Railroad
1520 AD Factory to Hydro Plant
1530 AD Refining to Steel
1530 AD Caravan(silk) 240 gd to Washington
1540 AD Hydro Plant to Freight
1540 AD Commencing WLTPD
1550 AD Steel to Combustion
1580 AD Combustion to Automobile
1610 AD Automobile to Mass Production
1610 AD Freight(copper) 138gd to Zimbabwe (Barbarian)
1610 AD Tacitus Most powerful-Mongols/Aztec/Americans/OCCers
1630 AD Mass Production to Leadership
1630 AD Superhighway to Freight
1630 AD End WLTPD Size 24
1640 AD Starting Darwin
1650 AD Leadership to Tactics
1660 AD Completed Darwins Tactic to Machine tools to Miniaturization
1670 AD Alpine to Freight
1680 AD Miniaturization to Computer
1700 AD Computers to Mobile Warfare
1700 AD Terraformed Coal to Buffalo
1720 AD Mobile Warfare to Robotics
1740 AD Robotics to Flight
1752 AD Flight to Radio
1756 AD Sold Sewer System
1758 AD Radio to Advance Flight
1758 AD Sold Aqueduct
1764(?) AD Advance Flight to Rocketry
1770 AD Rocketry to Space Flight
1774 AD Manufacturing Plant to Wonder
1776 AD Space Flight to Plastics
1778 AD Apollo Project completed
1780 AD First Structure
1790 AD Plastics to Atomic Theory
1796 AD Atomic to NF
1802 AD NF to NP
1808 AD NP to Laser
1808 AD traded for Monothesism/gifted 100gd
1814 AD Laser to Superconductor
1820 AD SC to Fusion ….Can't build one turn modules…no more freight
1830 AD Fusion finally got 100/0/0 tax rate (completing 2nd Module
1836 AD launched Ship Estmated time of arrival 1851
1851 AD AC

Nice game Tom, looks like we finally have a competition.

Hey, did anyone terraform the Wheat to spice? What is better, getting a bigger city with Wheat food or having more trade with Silk?

AU

[Hoss]

Aurelius—I transformed the wheat, but I did it late in the game after I’d grown my city. The extra arrows kept me at a tech every two turns after colossus expired. By then I could stand a food deficit.

[Graag]

I'm becoming more and more convinced that luck plays a huge part in OCC. As you can see from my log I was very lucky, I got no barbs from huts, lots of units early and a nomad almost straight away. I haven't really looked at other people's logs much but som people seemed to get really messed up in the all improatant early game by bad luck with huts. I think hut luck is a bit too important in OCC, so may I suggest an OCC comparison game where there are no huts. I'm not sure if you can do this in the scenario editor, but you could make a rule that you cannot pop any huts. It might be fun to give you an advanced unit or two to start with to make up for no huts, say 2 NONE armors or something. I think with no huts we would see landing dates a lot closer together, and the true champion of OCC would emerge (although I did well I don't consider myself that great at it).

Graag

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You should never smoke in pyjamas, you could start a fire and burn your face

[Tom DeMille]

Well, I don't think there is much doubt that Paul is the champion of OCC. So removing huts would pretty much assure him victory.

That said, I would agree that removing huts would provide a closer comparison game. I would go one step further and make the entire map visible at the start. Finding AI civs involves some luck while exploring.

I don't think we would need two armor to start. A couple of horsemen or chariots would be enough.

[Graag]

Tom, I agree on all accounts. Early contact is also way too important in OCC consdiering a lot of it is luck (again I got some good early contact in this game).
I think a totally visible map with no huts would make a great comparison game, and Paul's place as king of OCC could be confirmed.
I also agree the armors are unneccessary, I just thought they could be a bit of fun. Nothing to do with the comparison game really.

Graag

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You should never smoke in pyjamas, you could start a fire and burn your face

[Smash]

I know what you are saying.Too many techs before Monarchy and you might as well hit restart.Barbs kill all your explorers just as you start the Collosus...etc
But that is a big part of OCC.Do I guard that hut till Monarchy?Do I build some roads first and hope to get some nons.These seemingly small decisions have a huge effect on the final outcome.

Originally,the fortnight proposal was to play maps rather than sites.Now it ain't much fun wandering around,not finding a spot till 1000bc and find out it is 2 squares from Rome
But,maybe a map with several spots with differing special combos fairly close by.
Or even revealing several spots.The player could decide which one looks best to them.Factors such as "How long is it gonna take to get there?".Will I have to cross unfriendly territory?""Is that extra whale worth an extra 500 years of wandering"

Or variations like no Shake's.No Ike's or,yes no huts.Or a map loaded with spots and you are on your own
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited February 24, 2000).]

[Sten Sture]

Holy Cow you guys are on page two already... I better hurry up and play this one. So much for giving myself an advantage with by making the map, now I can't remember where anything is!!!

I think I can make an open map with no huts, and maybe no barbs either.

I better get out of here before I start reading page one.

[Scouse Gits]

Hey Sten, if you throw in a vet ironclad or an "old defender" - who knows - I might have a try?!
-------
SG (2)

[Aurelius]

Hoss,
My food box was always low in this game. I made a mistake of selling the granary at the onset of WLTCD to afford a growth improvement-aqueduct. I never realized that as the food box got bigger the food in the box got smaller and without a granary, it will fall below half during WLTCD growth. One of my many mistakes in this game. (I don't like building a granary in the first place!)

But concerning terraforming the Wheat to Silk, I really wondered about what is most important, getting the extra 2 citizens during pre size 20 City or all the trade with the multipliers? That River Silk might be valuable. But in this hilly game, food was probably essential.

By the way Hoss, nice score. You obviously have studied hard--though your hut science was most enviable. I take it you like OCC. Have you tried MP yet? What other games do you play?

AU

[Aurelius]

Graag,
I think managing luck is important or should I say minimizing bad luck is important. One thing about this competition, Paul seems to do well with or without good luck. But don't take those huts away! I always feel a bit of a thrill when spinning the wheel.

In my game, when my Chariot left the boat for the wood hut, it knew it was 20 tiles from home and the only emmisary of our civilization....should NEVER have risked it! And as some have said, there are moments to guard the hut for later. I little further away was MWHC or NGMAABTAMS for Never Gave me an Alliance but took all my science. I should have stayed in the boat and said hello early on.

When you do look at Paul's and Tom's logs, you see some good moves that demonstrate their OCC skills. I like that Tom built some early frieght with the boat. They both sold their coliseums after size 12. Lots of gold in those logs suggesting good diplomacy.

When I think back, I had a great start and could have insured a better end. Should have given the Vikings Bronze !

AU

[Aurelius]

NO DARK SPACE! No way. That is half the fun!
AU

[Hoss]

AU, as far as huts go, I used my horse to go out and find huts right from the start (with my ship scouting the coastlines to help find them). All total I opened up five or six more than you, and yes I was lucky with the techs, but even better luck was getting two nomads. In the long run, though I think the hut hunting hurt me a bit since I was looking for huts instead of other civs. I noticed that Tom and Paul opened up quite a few less than me and it didn’t seem to hurt them.

I don’t think that I can play MP. I have v2.42(?) and I don’t think you can do it with that version. Anyway, my schedule is quite erratic at this time and I don’t see how I could convince someone to play when I’m available.

Other games? I played Age of Empires a bit and for awhile I was into Railroad Tycoon, but I’m not much of a game player. I always liked strategy/dominate the world games, and back in the days before computers I couldn’t get enough of Stratego and Risk. I guess that’s what drew me to CIV.

Concerning the extra citizens vs extra trade, I’m probably not the one to answer since I wasn’t smart enough to even build a collosseum to allow for faster growth without Shakespeare. I too would be interested in what others think.