Intermediate skill level strategy discussion =)

[Smash]

I like the new reference table.Should be a big help until things are memorized.

[SuperSneak]

WOW...Are you guys for real?
As long as I'm asking for things that are instantly and magically supplied, how about independant wealth, a new car and all my hair
back?
Thanks again.....I think this is just what I needed...hate to be cruising along and suddenly fall way behind in just a turn or two...
Keep up the excellent work...I'll be looking for plenty of answers!!

[Civ-wrecked]

Hawk,
I never used Republic before for the same reasons you quoted. I tried it recently to check out the pop boom and I become a Republican convert now , even though I only pop boom my SSC at 30% lux and not all of my cities at 80% lux. By mid-18th century my population and research rate is about the same as what I used to have by the early 20th century without using Republic (i.e. roughly 150 years faster on the average).
It's easy to switch to Republic after getting Mike's chapel. But using 30% lux would solve unhappiness problem even at diety. You can disband units in inner cities which do not need to defend against barbs and/or agressive neighbor AIs to save the support cost, and also use the gold to build the city improvements.
Democracy is even worse in the early years due to the two redheads for each unit out of the city (to create and protect a new city, for example). That includes all the ships which are absolutely needed to expand to another continent/island . It's still worth it though. I switch to Democracy the moment I get it, without waiting to build SOL even. Each time you rush build something with gold it saves some 10-20 turns and they will add up after a few hundred turns

[Hawkx9]

Civ-wrecked,
You stay in a rep. gov't? What I meant to say was that I don't stay in Republic anymore. I do use it for the pop boom but only periodically... when my cities are ready. For instance, after Mike's Chapel goes up. Once that happens, I switch to Republic, max out the luxuries for a few turns, wait for my SSC to hit 12 and all my supporter cities to hit 8, then switch back to Monarchy and only celebrate in the SSC once again. (20% lux is usually sufficient for this) This is in the eariler stages of the game of course, before SoL. I suppose with more micromanagement of my supporter cities I could get them to give me a decent arrow return, but I haven't gotten that far(good) yet. I simply use them to cater for the SSC... no improvements are built.

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Peace
[This message has been edited by Hawkx9 (edited June 20, 2000).]

[East Street Trader]

Often stay in Monarchy a long time - especially when the early game has gone well. Because of the free unit support you can build infrastructure easily. I don't limit number of cities and, on a big map, go on expanding almost throughout the game.

Agree with Wrecked tho', I get faster wins when I wean myself off the good production in Monarchy crutch and go to higher form of gov.t earlier. Often get to go straight to democracy, missing out republic. Simple fact is, shields don't yield research. In democracy, and even in republic, the extra gold soon makes up for the reduction in the number of usable shields.

Realised a while back that just cause I'd found a hut didn't mean I had to tip it. So now (large maps again) I often have untipped huts lieing about waiting for the right moment to be tipped. Knowing when that right moment might be was an aspect of my game I was working on when I bumped into Apolyton, got seduced by OCC and also discovered that I, too, like typing.

Haven't tried the no wonder challenges but had started to think I build too many WoW before tried OCC. Now certain of it. Plan to focus strategy and try being more selective (unless MP turns out to be the way to go). Downside is I'll lose to the A1 when the strategy turns out not to be well enough thought out.

Wrecked. If you can get the Theatre and build it in a coastal city then you can run your navy and merchant marine out of there. I often try to plan ahead from quite near the start of a game so as to keep this as an option. You can also run an army out of this city w/o unhappiness problems. Some people want such a city to have many shields. Because I haven't been going in for offense much I like one with good agriculture (unhapiness doesn't constrain this city's growth so it grows real quick).

Xen Yu. Thanks. I've written that down and put it in a safe place.

Aurelius. Try an Aussie Cabernet Sauvignon. Depending on circumstances (mainly how much of it you drink yourself) two bottles might be needed. Gin and tonic also good. Bollinger best of all but hard on the wallet. Good luck.

[Aurelius]

I find republic very helpful after monarchy. You really need the extra income to afford city improvements. But if you're a warmonger, republic is probably a liability.

ESTrader--I guess I've always known what a demon drink was...for me it's beer before liquor--never sicker. I'm too smart to repeat that mistake many more times.... (oh, I like Aussie wines!)

[East Street Trader]

Student parties (long ago) were bad. Some bought beer (English kind - doubt a yank would like 'em), some bought wine, some bought cider. Combination totally deadly.

Umm. Not too sure how close to the topic that is, exactly. Well, I was certainly an intermediate skill boozer in those days. Is that close enough?

[Sten Sture]

I also like Aussie reds - Shiraz (Syrah) and Cabs - very nice.

Basic civing - like alcohol - is best when you pick a particular type and stay with it. Expansionist = Beers, Perfectionist = Wines. Don't mix them or your belly will hurt!

I am usually a perfectionist because I don't like having to micromanage a ton of cities, but I recently played a scenario (Labrynth)where I had a lot of land to cover, so I decided to try a modified ICS using communism. (there were no goody huts)

By focusing your reseach target you are more likely to get what you want. Against the AI this is especially so.

My primary research goal was Democracy for the Statue of Liberty and the ability to go Commie. I went bee-line for Monarchy like usual - but then pottery for the HG to allow continued small city expansion in Monarchy. I used 4 cities as primary cities/wonder cities, but built all the wonders with caravans from supporting cities - those primary cities I allowed to grow toward size 8, but other cities were size 2, 3 or 4. Mostly I just expanded and built warriors, some horsemen and settlers with roads everywhere, then caravans for internal trade routes, with my cities two or three squares apart.

I picked up the Great Wall for the first time in ages as I trundled through and then Leos and then the SoL. Switched to commie, was still able to go and get Mikes next. Then I went after techs that would upgrade my units and give me the sea strength that I needed. I think I got Democracy as my 20th technology and with commie and those roads and internal trade routes I was getting techs every 3 or 4 turns.

I think this is an excellent strategy to try to use if you are having some difficulty with the game against the AI - with just four wonders and twenty technologies you should be able to dictate the rest of the game.

[DirkZelwis]

DaveV, thank you.

[Aurelius]

Californians have great beers akin to Belgian stuff. I love stouts and porters. I just don't know the English affinity for Boddingtons--creamy smooth and tastless. Maybe it's the tap in SF--

Oh, drinking can definately change the level of civ you play....micromanagement is useless after a few pints (some silly attempt to be thread context.)

I'm not a heavy hitter since college days (151 rum--awful stuff)

[Hawkx9]

Somehow this thread slipped into a drunken stuper...?

Question...
What units do you like to race for before starting to conquer? I've found that Catapults and Legion rule early, especially if the terrain is harsh. You simply cannot stop them with the defensive units of the time. I used to put a lot of weight into Phalanx, relying on them for early protection, but in my last game I was forced into an early two front war and got spanked because I relied too heavily upon them. Especially early, a good offense seems to be the ONLY good defense. I was forced to research Mathematics just so I could station a Cat within my cities to ward off all of those opposing Legion. Until Gunpowder, defensive units are lack without walls... and walls seem so... counterproductive... reactive instead of proactive. I've never built the Great Wall and may experiment to see its benefits.

Getting back to my initial question... I really prefer to advance all the way to Tactics before switching to a miliary stance... and Espionage if possible. It seems like a long time but Cavalry, Alpine, and Spys are just too good. Anything less produces lack-luster results, being too slow (1-mov't units) or wield insufficient firepower (my Knights always seem to run up against Pikemen w/ Walls). I want a crushingly decisive victory. Besides, once you get the science ball rolling, the tech really pours in, allowing you to advance far above the opposition... but before modern units hit the scene. I'm just not all about Tanks and Howies for some reason.

With which unit(s) do you enjoy massacring?

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~work like you don't need the money~
~love like you've never been hurt~
~dance like nobody's watchin'~
~live like there's no tomorrow~
[This message has been edited by Hawkx9 (edited June 27, 2000).]

[Smash]

Knights.Vets of course.

walls=diplomats

Crusaders

pikes with catapults

VETERANS.

[Ming]

In MP games, if I go the happiness wonders path, I wait until I get vet crusaders. If the opposition doesn't have pikeman yet, you can just blow them away. And even if they do, you send a diplo or two along to take down any city walls, and you can still take cities.

If I'm behind in the happiness race, I will switch to the real military path and work my way to vet knights. If you can get there first, you have a window of opportunity to take some cities. Yeah, you will lose a bunch of them, but they do work well.

If either of these paths doesn't work, I'll just wait for iron clads. Before costal fortresses, you can take most cities.

[geofelt]

Against the AI, my early conquest is by bribery. I demand tribute, collecting gold, and when they declare war, I bribe away their cities. From a military point of view, it is MUCH easier if the target city has no city walls. The key is to use enough vet units to get the job done in one turn.
After walls, I must want the city badly to expend the effort to take it militarily before artillery is available.

[jschwagle4685]

I just recently started playing Civ, and have now moved up to King level. Thanks to everyone for the great strategy tips.

I noticed that one wonder no one seems to mention is the Pyramids. In my earlier games, I always used to build this to avoid paying the maintenance on granaries while getting the population boost. Is this wonder worth building?

I seem to have no luck at all attacking AI units unless my units are veterans on this level. Many times I've lost musketeers attacking phalanxes. Do you build barracks in most of your cities?

I'm a big fan of using spies in my military - it seems like when I use the diplomat to sabatoge a city, they always go after the unit under production. I can never get at the city walls with them.

By the way, what is SSC???