Positioning to conquer a city

[-Jrabbit]

OK, I'm ataching the 1908 savegame. Here's my next problem --

The AI has started to build cities on my continent, in my city radius and/or close to my guradposts, and demanding I leave their territory. (See Oea and IIRC Caerphilly) I don't want to declare war (and as democracy may have a problem there) . I know that when they demand I leave "their" city limits the 2nd time, I'll have to do so, or "renounce this worthless treaty." At that oint, I'll be at war with everyone.

what 2do?

[rah]

The damage is already done. You shouldn't have let them build those cities in the first place. (I know it's obvious) But how do you stop them?

1. Keep caravans in waiting (or obsolete non-units)on good terrain in areas where you suspect it likely to occur. (this will cost you a caravan every now and then through sneak attack, but if you have cities cranking food caravans every turn, no great lose)

2. Shadow those settlers when they show. If you have an offensive unit next to a settler, it is not likely that it will create a city. Keep a spy with the unit and if a city is made, it should be cheap and then you can disband it.

If all this fails (because of demo), the city must be trashed as quickly as possible. (OR YOU learn to live with it and quit whinning about it) If you have SOL, just revolt and kill it. Take the opportunity while you're not in Democ to demand some tribute. If you have the UN, you can make peace again. And if it's that late in the game where they all hate you, you're going to be at war with almost everyone anyway, so don't worry about it.



OR THE DEAL WITH IT APPROACH>
Go claim the overlap square for your city to use with an offensive unit. Once you've claimed it. Hold it with diplos, settlers or caravans to keep him from claiming it back. Or if you have a lot of resources, just alternate a couple of bombers parking there every other turn.

Ok, not all of this is foolproof, but it should hopefully stimulate some ideas.

RAH

[-Jrabbit]

yeah.

I saw them dropping units on my continents, but didn't see any settlers. The offensive units they were dropping were hanging just outside my city radii ("we have no troops in your territory"). I knew something would happen, but didn't know what or when. Suddenly, cities with troops.

Both cities were dropped in terrible spots and have virtually no growth potential (again, don't know how much the AI will cheat in that regard, and presumably they can always buy units/improvements). Sounds like I'll have to move to war footing, declare fundy or commie (next oedo not until 1911 - blast!), and redeploy units to occupy other obvious target areas.

Oh well, I knew it was an uneasy peace that couldn't last. I just don't have the experience to know when/how the AI will react.

AC Update.

I'm now (I think) many techs away from Apollo (Auto - MassProd - Computers and Flight (next) - Radio - AdvFlight - Rocketry

Plus I need AtomicTheory - NukeFission - NukePowr - Laser - (Fusion) - Supercond to get to the Module.

It's 1908. Starting to look difficult...


Thanx rah.

[Campo]

I wouldn't tolerate those cities -- not only are they a recurrent annoyance, but once you get space flight they'll be harassing you with attackers and spies, which will be very hard to control being so close to your cities.

I haven't seen the save game so I'm not sure how big they are, but you should be able to bribe the cities. If they're still small (or you've built up your treasury) you can bribe them "x2" which prevents an incident. Bribery (regular or x2) would be my first choice.

My second choice would be conquest. Build and position units in preparation for when you can change governments, then conquer quickly. You can either use or disband the cities.

As rah said, after that you should position units where you think they arrived. I'd use spies because they're mobile, don't require support or cause unhappiness, and can bribe AI settlers. While it's true that they won't found a city while you're trailing them, it gets really tedious following them around everywhere.

[-Jrabbit]

THE FORCES OF DEMOCRACY ARE IMMUNE FROM BRIBERY.



But I didn't know about the 2x = no incident trick.
Thx.

[Campo]

Sorry, I knew you were in Democracy but I didn't realize the AI was. In that case you have two choices (aside from tolerating the foreign cities): wait for them to change governments, or attack and conquer. If you have the force to do it quickly then I would conquer. But use spies to investigate the cities first and make sure you can conquer them quickly. You don't want a prolonged war with the AI based on your continent.

How many AI cities are there, and how big are they?

[Campo]

Although this won't help with the existing cities on your continent, and it's somewhat contrary to your desired isolationist approach, there's another thing you might be able do to reduce their recurrence.

The AI will send settlers, attackers, and spies to your continent primarily by ship. (A small number may cross the pole but probably not enough to do much damage.) They can only launch ships from their coastal cities. If they don't have too many coastal cities you could use spies to poison their water supply and reduce their population, thus reducing the number of ships they can support. You'd have to send escorted transports loaded with spies, and of course you'd be at war during the process.

If it were earlier in the game I'd suggest conquering and disbanding their coastal cities, but I think it's too late for that. Keep it in mind for future games though -- if the enemy has few or no coastal cities then you completely control the seas and all oceanic passage.

[-Jrabbit]

Next Question

OK, so I'm about to finish 1921 and it hasn't gone too badly. Savegame is attached.

My biggest question is this -- Should I bother with Cure for Cancer? I've been ignoring it while working on things like coastal defenses, rooting out enemy evil on my shores, etc. But now the Persians are researching toward it, so I need to make a decision.

Getting rid of the cities was fun. Needed to get them to declare war (not too tough) and required the good fortune of a couple rounds of Senate approval to finish the job, but I got it done and stayed in Democracy the whole time.

So, how about Cure 4 Cancer? My inclination is to go for it. I've got about 5 caravans stashed so it wouldn't take long. Certainly the extra happiness couldn't hurt, I like the idea of letting the Persians waste a lot of shields on it, then taking it away. (so they can't use it to buy more troops).

The isolationist plan is coming together. With flight, I'm now building coastal air patrols to warn of incoming ships, and can strafe their freights before they get t me. That should buy me some time.

Mass Production is next. Still at 3 years between techs.

Outside wisdom always welcome.

[-Jrabbit]

Re: Next Question

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
The isolationist plan is coming together. With flight, I'm now building coastal air patrols to warn of incoming ships, and can strafe their freights before they get t me.

Obviously, I meant transports, not freights.
Other game notes:

--Oil is now coming into demand, so trade routes are being completed where possible.

--My 3 opponents now comprise 2 republics and 1 Fundie (Persian).

--Celts have 12 cities, Zulus have 7, and Persians have 18. I have 49.

--The RR network is nearly complete. Have spies in most cities. Have spies patrolling unpopulated areas to prevent surprise attacks.

--I'm have Adv Flight, studying Mass Production. Still waiting for the Atomic Theory - Nuclear Fission sequence to appear. In going for an AC win, is there anything I'm forgetting here?

Another Question: My SSC (Leptis Magna) is growing nicely and will go into WLTPD as soon as I eliminate its pollution (so there's a positive food situation). I've never had a city bigger that about 14 before. What do I do when I run out of land to work?

And is there a max city size?

Again with the thanx...

[DaveV]

Re: Re: Next Question

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
Another Question: My SSC (Leptis Magna) is growing nicely and will go into WLTPD as soon as I eliminate its pollution (so there's a positive food situation). I've never had a city bigger that about 14 before. What do I do when I run out of land to work?

Once your city grows beyond size 20 (or less if you have overlapped cities), new citizens are entertainers. It's more productive to change them to taxmen or scientists if you can still stay happy. Specialists produce 3 coins or beakers, but those are multiplied by city improvements. So a scientist in your SSC can produce 18 beakers. Note that any specialists after the first 16 cannot be changed from entertainers, so their only benefit is increasing your score. This means the maximum practical city size is 36.

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
And is there a max city size?

127. You need to play some arcane games with food caravans to reach that size, which Rah or Ming could explain to you.

[Ming]

Re: Re: Re: Next Question

Originally posted by DaveV
127. You need to play some arcane games with food caravans to reach that size, which Rah or Ming could explain to you.

Unless you are making a boring record run... it isn't worth knowing

[rah]

Are they vet spys?

As long as your not going for a record, it's worth it to drop into communism for a couple a turns and crank out a few hundred vet spys. Much better for protecting the homeland against AI espionage tricks. You can save the old non-vet spys in the cities to eventually disband for parts. Or you can just spread them around in unoccupied areas and put the to sleep so you don't have to waste time with them. They are very good sentries. And you never know when a horde of spys will come in handy.

Rich

[-Jrabbit]

HUNDREDS??

Remember, this is an AC run and I'm trying to play defense to get there.

My current spy force is a mixed bag of vets and non- (have been building barracks to upgrade my overall force to vets per advice received here / thx SG). I have one spy in just about every city and several spares on patrol. I'm also building vet defensive units (marines and alpine troops) to upgrade my old riflemen as I go. Port cities are getting subs to help fight off the cruisers etc. Just about every port city now has coastal fortress and city walls.

I was (am) afraid to produce too many military types due to being in democracy and then creating unhappiness. (I want to keep my tech acquisition no worse than every 3 turns.) I have noticed that cities with 4 or 5 military still seem relatively OK on happiness, which was not true 100 years or so ago. Does this change over time, or did I just finally get enough temples and marketplaces?

I'm hoping to avoid going commie unless I absolutely have to, and I would prefer to keep my cash for the SS build (at which time I will likely go fundy).. Right now, my isolation allows me to limit their attack points, which should improve as I get more Fighters available to do shore patrol.

I am, however, considering making some poison runs to nearby enemy port cities (per Campo) while I'm still war with everyone. Probably not yet, as cruisers and marines are their best units, and no enemy is yet researching either flight or battleships.

Any thoughts on Cure For Cancer? Worthwhile Y/N? I've never built it before...

Thanx again rah...

[Thoth]

I'd say yes to CfCancer. An extra happy person in every city will do wonders for your growth though WLTK, and will let you run at a lower luxury rate if you're not aiming for WLTK.

Your non-vet spies can be veteranized by sabotaging enemy units. You'll loose about half of them, but the increase in effectiveness is well worth it. Nor will this cause an international incident to topple your Demo.

[-Jrabbit]

Most excellent thought re "veteranizing" Thoth!
This may seem really basic to some, but it's news to me.

My inclination is to hold off on C4C until the Persians start building it. That way, it drains their shields away from war production for awhile. Not sure if that outweighs the benefits of getting happier today...

Your thoughts re extra growth for that one extra happy worker are food for thought. I'll consider...

I love this forum!