Positioning to conquer a city

[Scouse Gits]

Yes - a game save would be great - just a few points from reading this interesting saga

You say you are building a Wonder - WHY!!! - build caravans and then more caravans - you can rush a caravan at roughly 2 gold per shield - and use it to build your wonder at 4 gold/shield - plus you never get the embarrassment of some three toed sloth building the damn Wonder just before you.

THE secret of success at Deity is (IMHO) TRADE if every city has three trade routes your Democracy or Republic prospers, your Fundamentalist s are rich your Communists happy - don't forget that a celebrating Commie city has representative government trade icons! This essentially wipes out the Rep/Dem advantage over a Commie government.

In short BUILD CARAVANS and then build a few more!!!!

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Yes - a game save would be great - just a few points from reading this interesting saga

You say you are building a Wonder - WHY!!! - build caravans and then more caravans - you can rush a caravan at roughly 2 gold per shield - and use it to build your wonder at 4 gold/shield - plus you never get the embarrassment of some three toed sloth building the damn Wonder just before you.

THE secret of success at Deity is (IMHO) TRADE if every city has three trade routes your Democracy or Republic prospers, your Fundamentalist s are rich your Communists happy - don't forget that a celebrating Commie city has representative government trade icons! This essentially wipes out the Rep/Dem advantage over a Commie government.

In short BUILD CARAVANS and then build a few more!!!!

Duelling Scouse Gits -- must be slumming it to take an interest in this. Very cool.

1. Will try to post a save. Haven't done so yet, but recently downloaded a Mac Zip tool and so am theoretically able.

2. I keep hearing 2 theories --- Expand-expand! and trade-trade! Getting the point. Clearly, you need both, plus some happiness, at the right times and in the right proportions.

3. ...but I don't understand your statement about a celebrating commie city w/3 trade routes wiping out the Rep/Dem advantage. Please explain in terms a 3-year old could understand.

4. I am in fact building as many caravans as I can.

Wife's gone for the a.m. so I'm gonna play a bit. Will try to post a save and updated narrative next time around.

Let me reiterate how impressed I am at all the good advice and general interest I've gotten on this supposedly dead forum area.
Backatcha L8R.

[Scouse Gits]

We Love The * Day - WL*D
Nearly everyone is familiar with the fact that under Republic and Democracy a celebrating city with food surplus and the requisite aqueduct (to exceed 8) and sewer system (to exceed 12) will grow in population; it is less well known that under Monarchy, Fundamentalism & Communism a celebrating city enjoys the trade arrows of a representative government and under Despotism the food production of a Monarchy (hence the early advantage of the Gardens!)
Since (in general) a Commie civ is larger than a representative one the judicious use of Food Caravans can grow your key cities as effectively as WL*D and the celebration gives you the corresponding trade arrows - this virtually wipes out the advantages of the rep government...


Have you tried attaching the unzipped game - it may be too large, but there is a real chance it will attach successfully. If not master your zip utility asap - then we shall see...

Expansion and Trade go hand in hand - although we play other strategies as well both SG(2) and myself are 'Rabid Aggressive Rodents' who tend to ICS given no other obvious alternative - as you say the key is a judicious ballance of everything - military units, caravans, dips, improvements, trade, wonders, expansion - why do you think this siully game has got such a fanatical following after six years or so of release? One of these days we may actually learn how to play, but until that day - we are all still learning!!!

[Scouse Gits]

What my fellow "rodent" SG[1] says about food caravans is very important. Cities with high food and little production (The town with two or three fish and not much else) can be seen as a problem until you realise they can act as foundations for the vital centres of your empire.

This is how food caravans work.

1) Each time a food caravan is sent to a city half the food box fills up. If you have a granary in the receiving city, with the top half of the box filled, you will complete the bottom half of the box with each delivery - so unless the place is in dire hunger - another head of population will arrive the turn after. In addition, the city will enjoy an extra food icon with each route, but for two ongoing extra food units the city needs to be served by two different cities.

2) You can send any number of caravans from the Provider City to the same receiving city for the loss of only one food and one trade route in the place that builds them.

3) The Provider City will lose another food icon if it serves more than one city. Each route costs one unit of food.

The potential of food transfer is tremendous. If you have a Science City with a Library, University and science wonders, the multiplier effect of increased population is dramatic.

Much has been discussed about the SSC, but pause for a minute to consider other specialist cities.

The high Production City with mines and woods is the ideal place to build a Barracks for producing veteran units. Often such places don't grow quickly. Use food caravans! These high shield centres help representative governments to wage war. Imagine the power of a city producing 20 shields with Shakespeare's Theatre to curb the unhappiness of units away fighting. Many, many ironclads and vet crusaders causing mayhem everywhere.

Along the same lines - financial cities are worth building to a maximum. The multiplier effect of Market Place, Bank and Stock Exchange is awesome. Just the job when you build on a gold mountain and you need quick growth!

------------------------------

SG(2)

[-Jrabbit]

By popular demand, here is the savegame from when all this started -- 1800.

Recall that the decision to be made was AC vs conquest. I'm going AC now, then will go back and win by conquest starting grom this 1800 AD position.

Here's a ZIP from 1800. Next post will show current game.

[Campo]

I downloaded the file and it seemed to unzip fine. Unfortunately I don't have Civ on my computer at work -- seems like a serious deficiency.

How's the quest for JSB going?

In response to a point you made earlier about micromanagement and playing time, consider trying a small world next time. Because of other obligations that's what I usually play. It's still not quick, but it's noticeably shorter than normal world.

[-Jrabbit]

OK, so here's the current gamesave, from 1885.

Over the weekend, I played a fair amount. (Campo, I do have JSB and UN. Did not get Women's Suffrage.)

Had to drop back to Commie for several turns, as I needed to get some funding and build some temples/marketplaces/aqueducts. Not to mention, fight off several enemy incursions.

Once I got UN and had sufficient improvements, I went back to Democracy (1875, selected in OEDO year of 1874). Much better result this time, with massive celebrating and lotsa growth. Got leadership, got sanitation. also got peace with Persians and Celts. this helped a lot, but I note that the Persians are massing cruisers near several of my cities. Defending with riflement and coastal fortresses, which -- I hope -- will be enough.

In the meantime, I'm amassing some freights in my capital for the next wonder, which will be Hoover's Dam. I'm assuming this is going to boost my production output, but it's not totally clear to me.

After several years of celebration, I was out of money (I was 50-50 science and luxury), so I dropped the luxury rate down and boosted science enough to get techs every 3 years. The remainder is taxes, which still allows healthy growth.

Almost all important cities have 3 trade routes now, though I'm stil filling in some blanks.

I think the next step is to get more techs -- first attempt will be to steal from the Zulus, with whom I'm still at war. Starting to build the occasional factory as well. Building Sanitation in the capital (Chocolate City) and SSC (Leptis Magna) while I complete the rail network and upgrade land improvements.

Next tech (I think) will be Tactics, with Steel hopefully to follow. Looking at the above, it seems clear that I need to do a tech survey of the AI civs to determine where I can steal techs most effectively and thus not waste turns studiying the same things I can steal (BTW, I do have Espionage, specifically for this purpose).

Looks like the natural tech progression to spaceeship parts will keep me on an even keel with my opponents war machine. (Currently, the Persians lead in this area, already having Tactics and Steel.)

So that's the situation as I remember it. Here's 1885's save...

[Campo]

Sounds like you're doing okay. Women's Suffrage would have been nice but it's not essential. If you start running into happiness problems in some off your coastal cities that support ships, you can build a police station in them.

Persians are massing cruisers near several of my cities

You can build a submarine in a few target cities for "offensive defense". You can keep the sub in the city and if the Persians attack, destroy their cruisers with the sub. It never has to leave the city (when the cruisers are adjacent) so it's not vulnerable.

Spies are great for stealing techs, so that's good. I'm sure you're aware you can use the UN to see what the AI has, just like Marco.

Can't recall if we discussed this: are you familiar with the "key civ" concept? You can use it to give away techs to one civ and reduce your beaker requirement for new techs. Let me know if you need the details.

I think you're going to need a tech lead going into the spaceship race because the AI likely will build a ship quicker than you can. At least that's been my experience.

[-Jrabbit]

Great suggestion on submarines, Campo. (I would have thought of it myself, expcept for the fact that I don't actually have subs yet -- IIRC.)

I do have the Tech Gifting piece from the Great Library downloaded, but will need to study it a bit before implementing. Gotta say, this is one of the most counter-intuitive concepts I've found in the game.

Let's see, I'm Orange (again, IIRC) and Supreme (I assume) That means the Key Civ is Purple. But I killed that civ! Remaining in the game are --

Zulu = green
Persian = light blue
Celts = white

Since Purple doesn't exist, I can't gift them.

Holy Missing Colors, Batman! We've killed off our Key Civ!

The Tech Gifting text reads in part -- "When a civ is destroyed, your Power Rating may change. If the destroyed civ occupies the Turn Position corresponding to your new PR, you will be much higher in techs (since they now have none) and would have to pay the ighest possible beaker cost."

If the Power Rating chart shifts when civs are deleted, that means my civ (Orange) would shift to the top, making me my own key civ. That would mean gifting until I drop in the ratings, to drop my beaker cost. That just feels WRONG!! i want -- I NEED -- to be Supreme!!

I'd like some insight on this before I start gifting techs to my opponents. Perhaps I'll post this as a new thread...

[Campo]

I downloaded both your save games and took them home with me, but I couldn't open them on my PC. I had given them the .sav extension so they showed up in the dialog box, but when I said to open them the game said they weren't save games.

I guess it must be something to do with the Mac-PC issue, though I've read elsewhere that transfers work.

[Campo]

I downloaded both your save games and took them home with me, but I couldn't open them on my PC. I had given them the .sav extension so they showed up in the dialog box, but when I said to open them the game said they weren't save games.

I guess it must be something to do with the Mac-PC issue, though I've read elsewhere that transfers work.

[-Jrabbit]

Bad Word! Drat! Bleep!



Thanks for letting me know. I'll go back to the drawing board. Probably a preference setting I missed in the software setup. Something stupid, I'm sure... cuz it was just too easy.

In the meantime, the game seems to be going pretty well. Hit 1898 last night. The good ole UN got me back to Peace with all civs (which are all allied agaiinst me). No attacks lately, just all their cruisers circling all my coastal cities. I'm building fortresses and walls for the inevitable breaking of the treaties.

Techs every 3 turns at present, with no riots at a 20 percent luxury rate. When I've built a few more Sanitation systems, I may try to boost the pop with more WLTP days.

At this point, I'm solififying defense and moving to a shield-production economy, in preparation for the assualt on AC. Please confirm that Hoovers Dam is a good investment toward that goal.

[Scouse Gits]

Panic not -J - the files are fine.

What you need to do is

1. Download the files
2. Unzip - using a suitable utility program most PC users have WinZip
3. Rename the file from ...-AC to ...sav
4. Load into MGE (will not work with v2.42 (single player)

The game looks fine - but for your empire size you are broke - more trade, more marketplaces, more tax - why rush science at this stage? and above all MORE BARRACKS - pour out those vets...

But as has been remarked before - I'm an aggressive rodent - even if I'm going to AC - !You can get to AC! - I do so after crippling the AI - never give a three toed sloth an even break...

Will look some more at the game tomorrow ...

[Campo]

Load into MGE (will not work with v2.42 (single player)

There's my problem. I had done all the rest but didn't realize it needed MGE. Thanks for the explanation.

even if I'm going to AC - !You can get to AC! - I do so after crippling the AI

That has become my policy too, since the last time I did AC as an isolationist. The AI just becomes so annoying with their relentless attacks. However I don't think that's what Jrabbit wants to do in this game. I think he's trying for a "pure" AC win, fighting only defensively. If that's correct then I agree with you about trade and marketplaces, but I'd be very selective about barracks (coastal cities and other entry points).

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
The game looks fine - but for your empire size you are broke - more trade, more marketplaces, more tax - why rush science at this stage? and above all MORE BARRACKS - pour out those vets...

Hm. OK. well, Campo's right, I was looking to get to AC with little muss/fuss. Thus the defensive stance. Science rush is to get techs. I'm set for the min percentage that will maintain a tech per 3 turns. Figured when I got to the last couple techs, I'd pump the taxes at that point.

I assume when you say "cripple the AI" you mean an aggressive attack stance designed to eat up their production capability/cities.

QUESTIONS:
--If you have to cripple the AI to get your ship launched, why wouldn't you just finish the (conquest) job? (Sounds like I'm in for a heap of AI trouble once I start building SS parts.)

--How can you install a bunch of barracks and pump out vets while in a democracy? I thought the cities didn't like to support too many military units (3?) lest they become unhappy...

Oh well, if I'm on a fool's errand with this approach, guess I'll learn the hard way.

BTW, great news on the savegame viability!!!


More input always welcome.