OCC fortnight 11 - Discussion and logs

[Paul]

It has been more than a week since the last log was posted for fortnight 10, so I'll assume that you are all ready to play #11. So you can now download it here.

Vik has sent me this scenario where you are on a one-square island surrounded by a ring of ocean, then a ring of land, another ring of ocean and another ring of land.

This means that you won't be able to contact the other civs and with Marco Polo's being lost you'll have to play this on your own without help from the AI. So maybe the MGE players can also have a go at this, because they won't be bothered by the agressive AI.

No contact and no possibilty to explore and send out caravans may be a bit boring, but it may also be fun for a change. Just let me know what you think.

Without help from the AI a record will certainly not be possible; Vik had already sent this to me two weeks ago and I already played it and landed in 1931. I'll post my log later when some other people have also finished it.

[Oldman]

Ha ha!! Vik, you won't believe this, but i very nearly made a scenario myself with rings of ocean and land!!!!!!! i've got the map somewhere on my HD, weird hey!!?!??!

[Steve Clark]

But what would prevent the AI from contacting you?

[Paul]

The fact that the AI can't reach you prevents them from contacting you.

[Xin Yu]

Perfect for my granary-HG strategy!

[Paul]

Well, without getting technology from the AI you will certainly have more time to build them, but without tribute and gifts you may also need that time to build things that you would normally have bought with all that extra gold.

[Steve Clark]

Forgive me, gentlemen, I'm still not understanding something. In theory at least, the AI can reach you. Since they can build more than one city, what would prevent them from putting a settler on a trireme and settle the inner ring? Then they could build another trireme and explore the water around your city? I'm not sure what would precipitate a contact, but in theory they could do this?

[Tom DeMille]

The outer ring is mountain. I think the AI would follow AH's philosophy, and not build a city on a mountain.

I'm not saying it is impossible for them to contact you, I'm just saying... Yeah, it's impossible.

edit: Looks like you beat me on this one Paul. I finished my session today with the building of Appollo. It's 1891, and I have dozens of freight ready for rushbuilding components, but in retrospect I don't think I have enough. (I skipped Robotics, so have only 62 production).

There were interesting choices to be made early on. I'll be interested in seeing everybody's strategy.
[This message has been edited by Tom DeMille (edited June 12, 2000).]

[vik]

Great, Tom!

That's what I was going for on this. I really wanted to scrutinize city-management style on this.

In addition, no matter what your level of OCC-experience is, I think everyone can find success on this.

But I hope I did not bore too much

[granite00]

How do you guys design the OCC scenarios?

[tonic]

Vik

Boring to some but a great scenario for beginners as it eliminates 2 aspects from the early exploration: hut searching strategy and AI diplomacy tactics. Perhaps the newbies have a chance to catch up with the veterans on this one?

Just got going but who'd have thought that the main inhabitants of the fabled Atlantis would be somnolent camels laden with hides, dye and gold with nowhere to drop their load - poor sacrificial citizens at the alter of Wonders.

[tonic]

Sorry for the typo: "alter" <= "altar"

[Tom DeMille]

Tonic, you can edit your posts (one of the icons along the top of each post), so no to be embarassed about typos.

One neat thing about this scenario is that there is little to no chance involved - replay won't be tainted by knowledge of other civ locations. I definitely plan to have another go at this. I was not happy with my final city population, and want to see what would happen if I tried growing more.

[Smash]

This one went pretty fast as there was not nearly as much you could do early.I saw 2 ways to go early.Build a settler and improve the land delaying Collosus.Or go for a harbor and possibly delay Construction and Republic.hehe or try Xin's plan.I lost several turns due to plain old laziness or could have landed a little earlier.Maybe 10 years earlier...oh well.Every turn counts in OCC.Gold was always short.

log follows
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3900-settler joins city
3850-govt.-Monarchy-warrior
3650-warrior
3300-Map Making
3250-trireme
3200-size 3
2900-settler-start wonder
2750-Bronze Working
1850-Writing
1350-settler rejoins city
1250-Currency
1050-Collosus
1000-”we love the king”
925-Masonary
800-library
750-Construction
650-temple
500-Literacy
400-market
300-The Republic-revolt
225-govt.-Republic-can’t “we love” no Mysticism or trade routes-disband warriors-can’t quite finish colliseum
150-colliseum-”we love” size 5
50-Mysticism
-----------------------------
AD1-aquaduct
40-end “we love” 11(no harbor)-sell temple
100-Philosophy>Math
220-Astronomy
380-Cope’s-University
460-Trade
520-build university
560-Pottery
580-caravan
620-Seafaring
660-harbor
700-Medicine
740-caravan
800-Horseback Riding-caravan
880-caravan
900-The Wheel
940-caravan
980-sell colliseum
1000-Shake’s-Engineering
1100-”we love” 11
1120-Sanitation
1140-sewer
1200-caravan
1220-Gravity
1240-caravan-end “we love” 19(no food)
1320-Banking-caravan
1360-caravan
1400-Invention
1440-caravan
1480-Democracy-revolt-caravan
1500-govt-Democracy
1520-Sir Ike’s
1530-Warrior Code
1550-Iron Working
1570-Gunpowder
1590-Chemistry
1600-bank
1620-Explosives
1630-Engineer
1650-Bridge Building-caravan
1670-caravan
1680-Metallurgy
1690-caravan
1720-Physics-caravan-plains>grassland
1750-caravan
1752-Physics
1756-caravan
1758-Steam Engine
1760-caravan-start wonder
1764-Railroad
1768-Darwin’s>Magnetism>Electricity
1772-Refrigeration
1778-Industrialization
1780-supermarket
1784-”we love” 18
1786-Steel-engineer-end “we love” 18
1794-Economics-”we love” 18
1800-end “we love” 21-sell sewer
1802-The Corporation-sell aquaduct
1804-stock exchange
1808-freight
1810-Refining
1812-freight
1816-Combustion-freight
1822-Automobile
1828-Electronics-superhighway
1834-Mass Production
1840-Feudalism
1846-Conscription
1850-factory
1851-Chivalry
1854-Leadership-power plant
1856-mass transit-disband trirme
1857-Tactics-freight
1858-freight
1859-freight
1860-Machine Tools-freight
1862-freight
1863-Miniaturization
1864-offshore platform
1865-freight
1866-Computers-freight
1869-Mobile Warfare-research lab
1871-Robotics
1874-Flight-manufacturing plant
1875-freight
1876-freight
1877-Radio-freight
1878-freight
1879-freight
1880-Advanced Flight-freight
1881-freight
1882-freight
1883-freight
1884-Rocketry-transport
1887-Space Flight
1888-Apollo
1891-Plastics
1895-Atomic Theory
1899-Nuclear Fission
1903-Nuclear Power
1907-The Laser
1911-Superconductor
1917-Fusion Power-sell research lab
1919-15-3-3-1-1-1-launch

the usual
1934-ARRIVAL AC

Collosus-1050BC
Cope’s-380AD
Shake’s-1000AD
Sir Isaac-1520AD
Darwin’s-1768
Apollo-1888

Monarchy-3850BC
Republic-225BC
Democracy-1500AD

Trade-460AD
Construction-750BC
Sanitation-1120AD
Refrigeration-1772AD
Automobile-1822AD
Computers-1866AD
Space Flight-1887AD



[This message has been edited by Smash (edited June 13, 2000).]

[butch]

An interesting scenario. I took a slightly different initial approach than Smash and used the settler to improve the land before adding him to the city. Narrowly missed being wiped out by the Egyptians at end-game. My late-game research slowed me down (5 turns/discovery -- compare with Smash. . .) It's my first log -- sorry it's so wordy.


The results:


AC landing 1935

Governments:

3850 BC Monarchy
525 BC Republic
1260 AD Democracy

Wonders:

1050 BC Colossus
340 AD Copernicus'
720 AD Shake's
1520 AD Sir Isaac Newton'
1776 AD Darwin's
1883 AD Apollo Program

City size:

1 AD Size 12
1080 AD Size 21

Advances:

250 BC Construction
50 BC Trade
780 AD Sanitation
1720 AD Refrigeration
1792 AD Automobile
1851 AD Computers
1880 AD Space Flight
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so here it is:

3900 BC Revolution
3850 BC Monarchy
3800 BC Warrior
3550 BC Warrior
3150 BC Map Making
3100 BC Temple
2650 BC Trireme. Building Lighthouse.
2550 BC Bronze Working. Switched to building Colossus.
1950 BC Writing
1350 BC Mysticism
1050 BC Colossus. City size 5.
925 BC Literacy. Built Library. Building Barracks.
825 BC Built Barracks. Sold Barracks. Building Barracks.
800 BC Philosophy. Currency. Switched to building Marketplace.
625 BC The Republic, revolution. Marketplace. Building Barracks.
525 BC Republic. Disband Warrior.
500 BC Built Barracks. Sold Barracks. Building Barracks.
400 BC Masonry. Switched to City Walls.
350 BC Ottomans destroyed by Greeks – as if I care.
250 BC Construction. Switched to Colosseum.
175 BC Colosseum
150 BC Begin WLTCD (size 5). Add Settler to Atlantis (size 6).
75 BC Aqueduct. Building Trireme.
50 BC Trade. Switched to Caravan.
1 AD End WLTCD (size 12).
20 AD Built Caravan. Disband Warrior.
40 AD Mathematics. Built Caravan.
140 AD Astronomy
160 AD Built Caravan
220 AD Built Caravan
240 AD Medicine
280 AD Built Caravan (my 5th). Begin Copernicus’ Observatory.
340 AD Copernicus’ Observatory.
360 AD Pottery
400 AD Built Caravan.
420 AD Horseback Riding
460 AD Built Caravan.
520 AD Built Caravan.
540 AD The Wheel.
580 AD Built Caravan.
640 AD Built Caravan (my 5th). Begin Shakespeare’s Theatre.
660 AD Engineering
720 AD Shakespeare’s Theatre. Building City Walls. Disband Trireme. Sold Colosseum.
740 AD Sold Temple.
780 AD Sanitation. Switched to Sewer System.
840 AD Sewer System. Building City Walls.
880 AD Seafaring. Switched to Harbor.
900 AD Begin WLTCD (size 12).
920 AD Harbor. Building Colosseum.
1000 AD University. Switched to University
1020 AD University. Building Colosseum.
1080 AD Banking. Switched to Bank.
End WLTCD (size 21).
1100 AD Bank. Building Caravan.
1140 AD Invention
1160 AD Built Caravan.
1200 AD Democracy, revolution. Built Caravan.
1260 AD Democracy. Built Caravan.
1300 AD Theory of Gravity.
1320 AD Built Caravan.
1360 AD Warrior Code. Built Caravan.
1400 AD Built Caravan.
1420 AD Iron Working.
1460 AD Built Caravan (my 7th). Building Trireme.
1480 AD Navigation. Switched to Caravel (not Caravan).
1500 AD Built Caravel. Begin Sir Isaac Newton’s College.
1520 AD Sir Isaac Newton’s College. Physics.
1540 AD Chemistry.
1550 AD Built Caravan.
1560 AD Bridge Building.
1580 AD Gunpowder. Built Caravan. Building Settler.
1600 AD Explosives. Switched to Engineer.
1610 AD Engineer #1. Building Engineer.
1630 AD Magnetism. Built Engineer #2. Building Caravan.
1650 AD Built Caravan.
1660 AD Metallurgy
1670 AD Built Caravan.
1690 AD Electricity. Built Caravan. Building Colosseum.
1720 AD Refrigeration. Switched to Supermarket.
1730 AD Supermarket.
1750 AD Steam Engine.
1752 AD Built Caravan
1756 AD Railroad. Built Caravan.
1762 AD Industrialization
1764 AD Built Caravan. Begin Darwin’s Voyage.
1768 AD Steel.
1774 AD Economics.
1776 AD Darwin’s Voyage. The Corporation, Refining. Building Factory.
1778 AD Begin WLTPD (size 19).
1786 AD Combustion.
1788 AD End WLTPD (size 24).
1792 AD Automobile. Switched to Superhighways.
1794 AD Superhighways.
1798 AD Electronics
1802 AD Stock Exchange.
1804 AD Feudalism.
1806 AD Built Freight. Disband Caravel.
1810 AD Chivalry.
1812 AD Built Freight.
1816 AD Conscription
1818 AD Built Freight.
1822 AD Leadership
1824 AD Built Freight.
1828 AD Tactics
1830 AD Built Freight.
1834 AD Machine Tools
1836 AD Built Freight.
1840 AD Miniaturization
1842 AD Built Freight. Persians build United Nations.
1844 AD Allied with Babylonians; everybody else asks for money and declares war. Babylonians gift 50 gold.
1846 AD Mass Production. Peace and Alliance with Indians.
1848 AD Begin WLTPD (size 24). Start changing silk squares to wheat.
1851 AD Computers
1852 AD Research Lab. End WLTPD (size 27).
1854 AD Mobile Warfare
1855 AD Factory.
1856 AD Robotics
1857 AD Power Plant.
1859 AD Flight. Begin WLTPD (size 27).
1861 AD Offshore Platform. Alliance with Egyptians, peace with Persians and Greeks.
1862 AD End WLTPD (size 28). Could be bigger but anticipating starvation.
1863 AD Indians ask me to declare war on Persians, and I do it.
1864 AD Radio
1869 AD Advanced Flight
1870 AD Manufacturing Plant.
1871 AD Built Freight (50 shields/turn)
1872 AD Built Transport.
1873 AD Built Engineer #3.
1874 AD Rocketry. Begin SETI Program. Built Engineer #4.
1880 AD Space Flight. Switch to Apollo Program.
1883 AD Apollo Program. Build SS Structurals over next 15 turns, disbanding 2 Engineers and Transport. Had to buy temple and switch to Structural because production only about 65 shields.
1889 AD Alliance with Greeks, gift 250 gold.
1890 AD Plastics (date is approximate).
1891 AD End WLTPD (size 29). Begin WLTPD (size 29).
1894 AD End WLTPD (size 31).
1897 AD Greeks gift 125 gold.
1898 AD Nuclear Fission. All 15 SS Structurals done.
1900 AD 1st SS Component.
1901 AD Nuclear Power
1903 AD 2nd SS Component.
1904 AD Laser
1905 AD 3rd SS Component.
1907 AD Superconductor. 4th SS Component.
1911 AD 1st SS Module.
1912 AD Sold Manufacturing Plant.
1913 AD Fusion Power. 2nd SS Module. Done with research, all taxmen now, tax 100%. Sold Power Plant. Disband both Engineers remaining, since they’re about to starve. Make peace with everyone when I have no money after rush-buying the. . .
1914 AD 3rd SS Module. Spaceship Launch. (15-2-2-1-1-1, flight time 21 years). Building Mass Transit.
1915 AD Sold Factory.
1916 AD Mass Transit
1917 AD City Walls
1918 AD SAM Missile Battery
1919 AD Engineer. Sold Research Lab.
1920 AD Barracks. Bought Alpine Troops. Sold University. Egyptian Bomber right next to city: fearing sneak attack, I give them all my money (only 150 gold).
1921 AD Alpine Troops. Disband Engineer. Build Transport.
1922 AD Oops. Buy Engineer.
1923 AD Engineer (city size is 28). Start cleaning 3 polluted squares.
1925 AD Tank. Egyptians sneak attack, killing Alpine Troops with Bomber. Rush-buy another Alpine Troop, selling Library.
1926 AD Alpine Troops. Rush-buy Fighter, in case Egyptians try again.
1927 AD Kill Egyptian Bomber with Fighter.
1928 AD Egyptian Bomber kills Tank. Fighter kills Egyptian Bomber. Rush-buy another Tank, since they at least put up a fight against the Bomber.
1929 AD Egypt sends 2 bombers, troops hold. Begin building Cruise Missile to send those bastards a message.
1930 AD Rush-buy Cruise Missile.
1931 AD Launch Cruise Missile into “the river district” of downtown Thebes, slaughtering thousands of innocents. Doesn’t work. Decide to build SDI in case they get the same idea.
1933 AD SDI Defense.
1934 AD Colosseum. Blitzkrieg of Egyptian Bombers barely thwarted. Good thing, too, since they have Combined Arms (i.e. Paratroopers).
1935 AD AC Landing.



[This message has been edited by butch (edited June 14, 2000).]