OCC fortnight 11 - Discussion and logs

[Tom DeMille]

I could see two ways to proceed: 1) Add my settler to the city and worry about improving the land later. 2) Start researching Map Making, and build a trireme before building the Collosus.

I tried method 2, but then ended up going for a Library before Collosus. I also added the Settler to the city to grow it to size 5 (allowing me to work all 4 specials).

I noticed that Smash, with the same size city as me (size 21), was able to get later research every 3 to 4 turns. Even at 100% science, I was getting them every 5 turns after space flight. Maybe my AIs were further behind in science.

I'm going to test something this morning. I've got a 1740 saved game. I'm going to relaod it, and go straight for Communism after Refrigeration. I'll build United Nations and try to gift all my science to the AIs. We'll see how that will affect the science rate for the end game...

3900BC - switched to Monarchy
3800BC - built warrior
3600BC - built warrior
3250BC - Map Making
3200BC - built trireme
3050BC - built warrior
2600BC - Writing, disband warrior
2450BC - built Library
2250BC - add settler to city (now size 5)
2200BC - Bronze Working
1900BC - Currency
1600BC - Masonry
1300BC - built Colossus
1250BC - Construction
1100BC - built Temple
950BC - Mysticism
900BC - built Marketplace
875BC - begin WLTKD
800BC - Literacy
650BC - built Colosseum, end WLTKD
625BC - Philosophy, The Republic, revolution, switched to The Republic
600BC - begin WLTCD (pop is 5), disband both warriors
500BC - end WLTCD (pop is 8)
475BC - built Aqueduct
450BC - Trade
400BC - built settler
275BC - Pottery, built caravan (now, if I only had an airplane...)
75BC - Seafaring, begin WLTCD (pop is 7)
50BC - built Harbour, disband settler
60AD - end WLTCD (pop is 12)
100AD - Mathematics
220AD - Astronomy
260AD - built Copernicus' Observatory
300AD - University
400AD - Medicine
460AD - built University
500BC - Horseback Riding
600BC - The Wheel
720AD - Engineering
820AD - Sanitation, built Shakeaspeare's Theatre, sell colosseum
840AD - sell temple
860AD - built sewer system, begin WLTCD (pop is 12)
940AD - Banking
1000AD - end WLTCD (pop is 19)
1020AD - built Bank, disband trireme (production is now 20, making rushbuilding caravans easier)
1040AD - Theory of Gravity
1120AD - Economics
1200AD - Invention
1280AD - Democracy, revolution
1320AD - built trireme (remembered that I need a boat to deliver caravans back to city)
1340AD - switched to Democracy
1380AD - built Isaac Newton's College
1400AD - Warrior Code
1420AD - built Stock Exchange
1460AD - Iron Working
1510AD - Gunpowder
1540AD - Chemistry
1570AD - Explosives
1580AD - built Engineer
1600AD - Bridge Building
1610AD - built Engineer, disband (was running out of food)
1630AD - Navigation
1660AD - Physics
1690AD - Magnetism
1720AD - Metallurgy
1750AD - Electricity
1758AD - Refrigeration
1760AD - built Supermarket
1764AD - built Engineer
1766AD - begin WLTPD (pop is 16)
1768AD - Steam Engine
1770AD - end WLTPD (pop is 18)
1776AD - Railroad
1780AD - begin WLTPD (pop is 18)
1782AD - built Darwin's Voyage, Industrialization, The Corporation
1788AD - end WLTPD (pop is 21), sell sewer system
1792AD - Refining, sell aqueduct
1800AD - Steel
1808AD - Combustion
1816AD - Automobile
1818AD - built Superhighways
1822AD - Conscription
1830AD - Feudalism
1836AD - Chivalry
1842AD - Leadership, built factory
1850AD - Tactics
1854AD - Machine Tools, built power plant
1858AD - Electronics
1862AD - Miniturization
1864AD - built offshore platform
1866AD - Mass Production
1870AD - Computers (I'm going to skip robotics because I have production of over 60 and a load of caravans)
1871AD - built Research Lab
1873AD - Flight
1877AD - Radio
1881AD - Advanced Flight
1885AD - Rocketry
1890AD - Space Flight
1891AD - Appollo Program
1895AD - Plastics
1900AD - Atomic Theory
1905AD - Nuclear Fission
1910AD - Nuclear Power
1915AD - The Laser
1923AD - Superconductor
1929AD - Fusion Power, Launch 15-3-3-1-1-1
1944AD - Landing on AC

[Xin Yu]

Nobody built GL and UN?

[Xin Yu]

Here comes the guy who never played but always have something to say .

I think you guys built Manufacturing Plant too early. Since you had 50+ net shields you didn't need it until the turn before building Apollo. This saves maintainance cost. Furthermore, if you had enough money or caravans on reserve, then you could simply skip mobile warfare and robotics, allowing earlier launching.

For same reason, if you happened to have several plains on river you could also transform them to hills (or if no time for that, mine them to forests). With RR they could provide more shields, thus allowing you to postpone building offshore platform until the turn before building Apollo.

[Tom DeMille]

Well, I replayed this from 1740 and built United Nations. As my new thread ( http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HTML/001230.html ) says, I was horrified when I gifted all my tech to the AIs and my science rate didn't change.

With my help, the AI did research Feudalism, Flight, Atomic Theory and Nuclear Fission before me, so they were a small help.

Then Persia started spliting up in civil war, and 2 new civs were formed (bringing the number back up to the original 7). I was researching Superconductor at the time, and suddenly discovered it 2 turns early. Checking my advance rate it had changed from 6 turns to 3. This continued for Fusion Power.

Going back and checking the beaker requirements directly, I found that it was taking 3504 beakers to research Superconductor before the creation of the 7th civ, and 1752 beakers after. Big difference!
[This message has been edited by Tom DeMille (edited June 14, 2000).]

[Tom DeMille]

Xin Yu, the manufacturing plant should be built at least 7 turns before space flight, so that construction of Appollo can be completed the turn after space flight (building at 80 production per turn for 8 turns is more efficient than redeeming 11 caravans).

You would then have 6 to 12 turns to play with about when to buy the manufacturing plant. The 50-100 gold saved in delaying construction is pretty insignificant at this stage of the game.

[Xin Yu]

In this game, since you can't rely on AI civs to get cash and tech, I think maybe KRC is useful. Anyone tried it?

[Aurelius]

Tom, I thought about building UN but I realized at space flight, I'd have contact with Apollo. But then I tried to give away science and the AI scoffed at me. Thought maybe Vik made the AI very hostile, but maybe it was my position in the space race or an advantage of UN.

[Smash]

UN?GL? What for?Actually,I thought about The Library,but figured if I got any techs they would come at the most inopportune time.Without tribute or gifts of gold it was tough enough to get things built.

My research went 5 once then dropped.I had several unexplained changes.Most were good.4>3.
I had at least 3 civs killed off,but your theory would still be right if the game uses some sort of technology TOTAL before deciding if you need an "adjustment" in your rate.

[Paul]

I did build the GL, but I thought of it a bit too late, so I only got three advances from it. Anyway, here's my log:

3850 BC Gov: Monarchy
3800 BC Warrior
3600 BC Warrior
3450 BC Warrior
3250 BC Mapmaking
3050 BC Trireme
2750 BC Bronze Working
2100 BC Mysticism
1500 BC Writing
925 BC Colossus
900 BC Currency
875 BC Library
700 BC Literacy
675 BC Marketplace
525 BC Temple
475 BC Republic, revolution
425 BC Gov: Republic
Start WLTCD, size 4
325 BC End WLTCD, size 7
275 BC Masonry
100 BC Construction
25 BC Colosseum
Start WLTCD, size 7
1 AD Aqueduct
40 AD Mathematics
100 AD End WLTCD, size 12
160 AD Astronomy
280 AD Philosophy, Pottery
300 AD Copernicus' Observatory
360 AD Seafaring
380 AD Harbor
440 AD Horseback Riding
520 AD Warrior Code
640 AD Iron Working
700 AD Great Library
Sold Temple
760 AD Bridge Building
880 AD Wheel
1000 AD Engineering
1140 AD Trade
1280 AD Medicine
1320 AD Sold Colosseum
1340 AD Shakespeare's Theatre
1400 AD Sanitation
1420 AD Start WLTCD, size 12
1440 AD Sewer System
1530 AD Banking
1540 AD Bank
End WLTCD, size 20
1570 AD Invention (GL)
1580 AD University
1590 AD University
1620 AD Theory of Gravity
1660 AD Democracy, revolution
Gov: Democracy
1680 AD Gunpowder (GL)
Isaac Newton's College
1690 AD Economics
1710 AD Metallurgy
1730 AD Chemistry
1750 AD Navigation
1752 AD Stock Exchange
1756 AD Physics
1762 AD Feudalism (GL)
Magnetism
1768 AD Electricity
1774 AD Explosives
1776 AD Engineer
1780 AD Refrigeration
1782 AD Engineer
1786 AD Steam Engine
Start WLTPD, size 18
1788 AD Supermarket
1794 AD Railroad
End WLTPD, size 21
1800 AD Industrialization
1806 AD Corporation
1812 AD Steel
1814 AD Darwin's Voyage: Refining, Combustion
1820 AD Automobile
1822 AD Superhighways
1826 AD Electronics
1828 AD Factory
1830 AD Sold Sewer System
1832 AD Mass Production
Sold Aqueduct
1834 AD Power Plant
1838 AD Conscription
1844 AD Chivalry
1850 AD Leadership
1853 AD Tactics
1856 AD Machine Tools
1859 AD Miniaturization
1861 AD Offshore Platform
1862 AD Computers
1863 AD Research Lab
1866 AD Mobile Warfare
1869 AD Robotics
1870 AD Manufacturing Plant
1872 AD Flight
1876 AD Radio
1879 AD Advanced Flight
1883 AD Rocketry
1887 AD Space Flight
1888 AD Apollo Program
1891 AD Plastics
1895 AD Atomic Theory
1899 AD Nuclear Fission
1903 AD Nuclear Power
1907 AD Laser
1911 AD Superconductor
1913 AD Sold Harbor
1914 AD Sold Manufacturing Plant
1915 AD Fusion Power
1916 AD Launch
1931 AD Arrival

[vik]

quote: Originally posted by Aurelius on 06-14-2000 05:51 PM ...maybe Vik made the AI very hostile...

On a scale from 1 - 100, with 1 being the most friendly and 100 being the most hateful, I set all the AI attitudes towards the human player at "99" for this scenario.

In OCC#6 (The 'Star Wars' Theme scenario), I set all of the AI attitudes at "1" towards you.

[Xin Yu]

I tried this game last night till 1800AD. I did not keep a log.

Early game, I recommend building a trieme (after your first warrior) and a settler, then add the settler back at size 7 (Get mysticism and Republic early so with a temple you can celebrate to 7).

If not enough money, skip colloseum since at size 8 you can celebrate to 9, then let the city grow naturally to 10, and celebrate again to 11.

Build colossus, GL, Copernius, Shakspear, KRC, approximately in that order. Copernius needs to be in a higher priority since the AI will compete with you.

GL will give you a lot of free techs. With KRC (and at size 20) you chunk out caravans every two turns without spending any extra money. Do it all the way till industrilization. Your settler will be busy cleaning pollution.

I propose a new chllange in this game: no incremental buying. I think KRC is a must.

[Paul]

Comparison table for Fortnight 11 is now available.

[Huey]

Pfew... This one was really hard. Always short of cash. While building the Space Ship I needed 2 turns for every component because of it. I decided to use my 9 caravans to build each module in 1 turn. Just missed a 1800's landing because of it

Collosus-1500BC
Cope’s-260AD
Shake’s-620AD
Sir Isaac-1510AD
Darwin’s-1766
Apollo-1856

Monarchy-3850BC
Republic-225BC
Democracy-1420AD

Trade-75BC
Construction-600BC
Sanitation-900AD
Refrigeration-1730AD
Automobile-1782AD
Computers-1824AD
Space Flight-1855AD

1 AD Size 12
1120 AD Size 21

3850 Monarchy
3800 Warrior
3600 Warrior
3150 Map Making
3100 Trireme
2600 Bronze
1950 Writing
1500 Colossus
1350 Currency
1100 Library
1000 Mysticism
850 Marketplace
825 Masonry
700 Temple
600 Construction
425 Literacy
400 Colosseum
225 Republic, Revolution, Republic
200 WLTCD, size 5
175 Aquaduct
75 Philosophy, Trade, disband Warrior
50 Disband warrior
------
1 End WLTCD, size 12
40 Mathematics
140 Astronomy
240 Medicine
260 Cop's Obs
300 Pottery
360 Seafaring
420 Banking
560 University
600 Sell Colosseum
620 Shakes', sell Temple
660 Horseback Riding
700 Build University
740 Wheel
780 Harbor
820 Engineering
900 Sanitation
920 WLTCD, size 12
940 Sewer System
1000 Warrior Code
1100 Iron Working, build Bank
1120 End WLTCD, size 21
1160 Bridge Building
1220 Theory of Gravity
1300 Invention
1380 Democracy, Revolution
1420 Democracy
1480 Astronomy
1510 Newton's
1520 Gunpowder
1540 Chemistry
1560 Metallurgy
1580 Navigation
1610 Physics
1640 Magnetism
1670 Electricity
1700 Explosives
1710 Engineer
1730 Refrigeration, Engineer
1750 Supermarket
1752 Steam Engine
1756 Railroad
1760 Disband Trireme
1762 WLTPD, size 19
1764 Industrialization
1766 Darwin, Corporation, Refining
1768 End WLTPD, size 21, sold Sewer System
1770 Steel, sold Aquaduct
1776 Combustion
1782 Automobile
1784 Superhighway
1786 Feudalism
1790 Chivalry
1794 Leadership
1798 Conscription
1802 Tactics
1806 Machine Tools
1810 Electronics
1814 Miniaturization
1816 Offshore Platform
1818 Mass Production
1824 Computers
1826 Research Lab
1828 Bobile Warfare
1830 Factory
1832 Robotics
1834 Power Plant
1836 Flight
1842 Radio, Manifacturing Plant
1844 Transport
1848 Advanced Flight
1852 Rocketry
1855 Space Flight
1856 Apollo
1859 Plastics
1863 Athomic Theory
1867 Nuclear Fission
1870 Nuclear Power, 15 structures
1873 Laser
1876 Superconductor
1883 Fusion Power, 6 components, sold Manifacturing Plant
1884 sold Power Plant
1855 sold Factory, disband Transport and Settler
1886 3 Modules---->Launch Space Ship
1887-1900 The usual stuff
1901 Landing on AC

[East Street Trader]

"Atlas the Titan the Small."

Says it all.

Didn't get spaceship finished, let alone land before this kindly owl thing came along and told me the scenario was all played out. Hard to know whether misconceived basic strategy, duff micromanagement or failures of concentration more to blame. (No, I do know really - this one tested my micromanagement skills to the point of destruction. Having hardly any gold and with precious few spare wheatsheaves in the foodbox most mistakes were costly - some ludicrously so).

Won't add to my blushes by posting a log. Can't conceive that it would aid anyone else to do so.

Some "never seen/heard that before" events along the way. If I'm ever on a one square island again I'll know not casually to put my ship to sleep if it's promptly going to hide itself behind the zillion caravans and freight I've built while waiting for my slooow research to let me built anything else. I could find no way to cycle through the units to get to the ship. Had to disband at half value until it appeared in the screen.

Never had sage advice from Elvis before (he agreed that I ought to get out a bit more - didn't tell me where the front door was tho'). Never seen a tetchy rep from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (bland buggers usually).

Strangely enough came by a trading hint too (if I can bear to go back and examine what might have trigered one or two peripheral events).

One big downside. Once you KNOW you're in such deep **** that the challenge is lost it is really quite depressing to have to play out the long losing game.

Once my bruised ego has recovered I'll give some anxious study to the logs above. Hope my lamebrain benefits - altho', am I right, you have to guess at some of the micromanagement behind the recorded events?

I shall also play the next one a lot slower.
[This message has been edited by East Street Trader (edited June 18, 2000).]

[tonic]

quote: Originally posted by East Street Trader on 06-18-2000 11:04 AM Won't add to my blushes by posting a log. Can't conceive that it would aid anyone else to do so. .... One big downside. Once you KNOW you're in such deep **** that the challenge is lost it is really quite depressing to have to play out the long losing game. ..... I shall also play the next one a lot slower.

If it's any consolation that's also my predicament and sentiments.

For me it's been one step forward and two steps back .

And vik, I'm going to play this through again for learnin'. BTW what do you say to a newbie's FAQ as feedback for a primer? I've got some questions in hand for starters.

As my alma mater's motto says: Ancora Imparo - I'm still learning.