Come! Laugh at an SG!

[Carolus Rex]

My second try is for AC as my friend La Fayette has been aiming at that (and with good results, out of bounds for me I'm afraid... ).

I'm going for 8 cities, no rehoming (but see my confession in the log about another dubious activity! ), MGE version.

Gentlemen, my log!

3950 Chariot (H)
3850 Horse (H), Carthage (F)
3750 Utica (F)
3700 Malaca (H)
3650 Alphabet (D), Archer (H)
3400 Archer disbanded in Malaca
3350 Code of Laws (D)
3000 Currency (D)

2900 Caralis (F)
2550 Panormus (F)
2500 Monarchy (D), revolution
2450 Proclaimed King, Leptis Parva (F)
2150 Trade (D)

1950 Cartenna (F)
1900 Rusicade (F)
1800 Pottery (D)
1500 Map Making (D)
1450 Carthage builds LH
1150 Writing (D)
1000 Carthage builds HG

900 Literacy (D), meet the Vikings, give them techs, trade maps
850 Copper caravan arrives in Trondheim, 120 gold (in demand), fills the science box

NB! I replayed the following turn, because I forgot to do an instant revolution

825 Republic (D), revolution, Consul. Silk to Aarhus, 64 gold (not in demand)

NB! The turn above was replayed, because I forgot to do an instant revolution

775 Carthage builds Colossus, luxuries to 30%
750 Philosophy (D) + Polytheism (D)
625 Carthage size 8, set luxuries to 20%
600 Seafaring (D)
525 Russians land in my territory, peace after giving them Philosophy
500 Monotheism (D)
475 Luxuries set to 30% (a mistake?)
450 Leptis Parva builds MC, luxuries set to 10%

Status: 8 cities (only the capitol is size 8), 4 wonders (LH, HG, Colossus and MC).

Carolus

[Smash]

Thats a good start.I like the set up with Lighthouse for trading early.

Now to finish the science city asap.

We won't hang you for the govt. change thing.After forgetting to revolt in mp umpteen times its nice to have a break,

[La Fayette]

conquest

Carolus explained his situation in 1060; in short: 51 cities!
I have 16
...but my mighty ironclads are sailing, and I expect to get VET SPIES next turn, so I consider I haven't lost yet.
Here is my short log (after 325BC, since I found it no use to replay the early game):
225BC: switch to Republic
175BC: Marco
200AD: Cope
440AD: Shake
700AD: Steam Engine
880AD: discover Communism ( too bad, 1 turn late)
940AD: switch to Com
1080AD (expected): Espionage

[La Fayette]

conquest

Now I know where I stand: 1520 to beat (seems I'm going to need Magellan and LH in order to sail quickly).
carolus, I let you know where I am in 1500 (if I don't finish before ).

[La Fayette]

big ship wins

congratulations smash
same launching date (1570), but your powerful ship lands much sooner

(La Fayette, admiring the big SS he didn't manage to build with his small civ)

[Carolus Rex]

Originally posted by Smash
Thats a good start.I like the set up with Lighthouse for trading early.

Thanks (although I think I have to credit the advanced tribe for the good start and the fact that I knew the map and sailed straight to the Vikings)!

However, the LH over HG was a deliberate choice. First, I figured building HG was premature at that time with so few cities, and, because a switch to Republic was not immediately to follow. Second, I went back to my conquest log and noticed that I built both HG and LH before the AI built its first wonder. So I was hoping to do the same here, should one of them have started on HG.

Originally posted by Smash
Now to finish the science city asap.

Yep, Carthage is working on a library and I'm heading for Astronomy. The problem is, without rehoming , when to sneak in a couple of caravans in the building list? Also, should I grow the other cities or let them hit the roof at size 8? Maybe I should check how you early landers did...

Originally posted by Smash
We won't hang you for the govt. change thing.After forgetting to revolt in mp umpteen times its nice to have a break,

Agreed!

Carolus

[La Fayette]

conquest

1460: Carthaginian crusader takes Tlaxcala.
The world belongs to Rabid Rodent.
Super ironclads (with Magellan and LH ) + vet spies = deadly combo for the enemies of Carthago.

(La Fayette, now ready for a third try at AC)

[La Fayette]

Here is the savegame

[Xin Yu]

Originally posted by Smash
Thats a good start.I like the set up with Lighthouse for trading early.

Now to finish the science city asap.

We won't hang you for the govt. change thing.After forgetting to revolt in mp umpteen times its nice to have a break,

I would do the following after discovering TRADE:

Set science to 30%, tax 70%.
Build food caravans like crazy (incremental buying).
Connect cities with roads.
Build MPE using caravans.
Contact 2-3 civs and trade techs to get ONLY map making, pottery, writing, and if possible, literature.
Build Lighthouse and a trieme.
Ship two settlers to another continent, build a city there and improve lands.
Ship 4 food caravans to the new city and build HG there.
Build Colossus in Capital.
Attempt to trade with another civ for literature if possible.
Research republic in full gear (Xinning!).
WLTKD to grow both the HG city and the Capital to size 8.
Two continental trade! You can avoid rehoming caravans if you send a caravan from another city to the HG city while putting all citizens in the capital as specialists.
Trade tech again, get whatever you want, preferably Masonry, Construction, Poly, Mono.
After getting Construction, build aqueducts to grow the cities to size 12.

[Carolus Rex]

Re: conquest

Originally posted by La Fayette
1460: Carthaginian crusader takes Tlaxcala.
The world belongs to Rabid Rodent.

Congrats!

I didn't think you would make it after reading your status report above (16 cities in ca 1060). What about the Viking (inner, mainland) cities, Crusaders?

To all the early landers (and everyone else!),

A couple of questions I have often wondered about in my AC games.

i) Do you stay in Republic to facilitate trading with ships (which causes unhappiness under Democracy)?

ii) How big do you grow the supporting cities, size 8?

iii) Do you build factories in a) the SSC and b) any of the other cities?

iv) Same as iii), but with hydro/manufacturing plants?

Clarifications of the questions (the reasons I ask):

i) It seems to me that there is a trade-off between staying in Republic and going into Democracy. Under rep the first trireme/caravel does not cause unhappiness, which they do in demo. So you have either to support all ships to the science city (with Shake's) or pick off workers to prevent unrest. Also, on the one hand it is more difficult to grow via WLTPD due to roaming ships, on the other it is easier (provided you port your ships). Sometimes I wait until I discover Industrialisation (especially if I have LW) to change to demo. Right or wrong?

ii) Is it worth building marketplaces and aqueducts in the other cities? Should they not build caravans and caravans only?

iii)-iv) I seldom do. I only rush buy caravan after caravan in all cities. When I build the space ship I first set production to a wonder in all cities, then I use a freight (or more) to add 50 shields (or more), then I switch to the desired space ship part. Is it better to have factories?

Carolus

[La Fayette]

carolus
You ask many interesting questions. I'll do my best.

1) Conquest
There is only one capital away from the coast in this game, namely Trondheim. I took it with crusaders (also took Kaupang with crusaders previously, to clear the way). Almost all coastal cities were taken by ironclads (except the last one, Tlaxcala, since I had no ironclads close by, but I had a transport, which allowed me to rushbuild 2 crusaders; a vet spy of mine had told me that there was only one unit inside... and couldn't bribe since the Aztecs had just switched to Demo).
I chose not to start conquering at all before getting Steam Engine, just for the fun of it (mainly in order to show that the kind of civ I like best, with a big SSC and a few helper cities size 8 or smaller, can be efficient even for conquest).
IMHO earlier conquest might be obtained in THIS game with a small landing force of 6 vet crusaders onboard 3 triremes to start with (perhaps doable not to switch to Republic at all). This would be much closer the kind of game you played.

2) AC
i) Yes I usually stay in Republic until I get galions or transports (but it is possible to switch sooner if you take care not to have more than one ship/coastal city and your cities are happy enough).
ii) Yes I usually stop at size 8 for all helper cities (arii usually doesn't, neither does smash). But I often build MP or Libraries (or both) in some of those cities, in the late game.
iii) Here is my theory about factories:
Factories without Hoover are no good (costly, slow return on investment, pollution). Hoover + 7 factories cost 2000 shields.
This doubles your shield production. Therefore, if the number of shields needed to finish your game is 4000 (the smallest SS costs 3680) and your production is 100 shields/turn, either you don't buid HD and finish in 40 turns or you build HD + 7 factories (takes you slightly less than 20 turns) + 20 turns to build 4000 shields. Would be a rather nice idea to build HD and factories in that case.
But usually early landers trade a lot in the endgame and mostly rushbuild with the gold they earn from trade (at least I do). Then they don't use that many shields. You can refer to my calculations above to draw your own conclusions (no definite answer yes or no to this question IMO).
iv) IMO: hydro (or HD): rather yes (see above)
IMO: manufact: no (too costly, too late)

[La Fayette]

AC: third (and last) try

I did the same as for conquest: didn't replay the early game and started from my save at 325BC. I am now at 1020AD, slightly ahead of my previous game... suspense!
Here is the short log:
225BC: switch to Republic
175BC: Marco
180AD: Cope
340AD: Shake
500AD: University
540AD: Leo
620AD: switch to Demo
700AD: Isaac

[La Fayette]

AC: third (and last) try

1550: lady Rabid Rodent throws a huge bottle of champagne at the vessel; SS (15,2,2,1,1,1) launched towards AC; ETA 1578.


Here is the new tiny Hall of Fame:
AC (with caravan rehoming): smash (launched 1530, ETA 1543)
AC (without rehoming): La Fayette (launched 1550, ETA 1578)
Conquest (without r.): La Fayette (1460)

[La Fayette]

savegame

Here it is.

Some kind of huge civil disorder might be noticed after thorough examination of the savegame. This is due to the fact that people in Utica and Panormus witnessed the launching of the SS and decided to start having REAL fun...

[arii]

I finally finish my conquest game (no rehoming). I finally found the last city and bribed it in 800AD. I lost 2-3 turns finding that last city until I gave all my techs+ some gold to trade maps and located it. Conquest was done with elephants, crusaders and dips. Here is the saves.