Nicosar's Master Challenge

[Nicosar]

to end this now....

perhaps it is an inherent design that the host is more LIKELY to get techs, but it certainly isnt certain he will, and that's maybe, but even IF I had played many countless games in the past I still wouldn't know about this supposed dishonesty because my crew didn't particularly care whether anyone started with anything or not, until we discovered the superior methods of customized play, especially since we all traded hosting priviliges...
It is strange though, that we would not notice such a thing, after all, even if we were cursed to suck we'd still have eyes and ears.... hmmmm....

And about my custom game, its quite easy to set up no techs at all.... its called: cheat menu>edit technologies

[Ming]

Unless you are playing with seriuosly edited game files, only the Host and the AI can get free techs, not other players.

From somebody who calls themself a master, this knowledge should have been obvious to you

Us common folks who don't play your "superior" form of the game are gentleman, and we tell our opponents if we have techs... hmmm, maybe our form of the game is the superior one

[War4ever]

i have never had techs in a game that i didn't host at the start, i have been playing this game online for four years plus...

so i ask you what were you doing there

answer carefully, your choice of words will be heavily scrutinized by the vultures circling your dead carcass of a game......what you say may or may not have implications on future games with opponents

[Berzerker]

And about my custom game, its quite easy to set up no techs at all.... its called: cheat menu>edit technologies

Ah! Since I can't host because of a firewall, I've never had to do that. We just keep restarting until the host is "clean", meaning no added techs. I know it was quite a while before I hooked up with people who did this, for a long time I just played with people who either didn't know or care if the host got extra techs. Frankly, I wasn't very pleased to find out I was at a disadvantage in many of those games when the host just fired the game up without a word about any techs. Hell, I've seen Monarchy offered up as a starting tech in sp games. lol... Now I ask whenever the host is someone I don't know, we've even disbanded the 2nd settler some players can get in sub-deity levels.

[Nicosar]

I dont know guys, maybe this is a case for the guy that plays william riker on that show unsolved mysteries....wait, it that the right guy? ahhh...who cares, whatever...

hows that for careful words..... ; )

no matter, though, I think anybody with any good taste will still be after that dead blood....after all, you vultures are rather toothless... you make alot of noise though....

[Ming]

I still think that it is strange that a self proclaimed "master" had no clue about this

Your knowledge of the game seems a tad limited oh master

[DrSpike]

Tired of regular civ? ... Do you turn on the game and find that it's old and tired look repulses you?

Well, no, actually.

[Flatlander Fox]

The problem is that you have to understand the game a bit better to make a GOOD scenario.

Not understanding that late game turns can take an hour, or that 200+ cities will make a MP game unplayable is a BIG fault.

My suggestion to you is to scale it down to a small map, with the same units. Then HOTSEAT play it to see how long your turns will take. Then figure in lag, slow players, and a host of other issues.

People won't play something that proves to be unplayable fast.

You had a good idea, and us troubleshooting it is to be expected. But it needs work, so why not take criticism constructively, instead of coming back at us with wordy rejections?

[Nicosar]

The reason is, good fox, because, I have played it through and through on multiplayer already, and anyway, back in the days I played many such custom versions, similar but rougher than mine, and each one usually ended in a gigantic build up of forces.....

.... and yet we kept playing....

hmm.... perhaps there is something in this whole 'ultra-dense' huge sort of game then, now isn't there, for a group of civ-addicts to go back and back again... but I suppose you'll never find out if you sit in your stump in the land of defaultedness and merely throw rocks beyond the hill where the grass is greener...

one cannot expect me to take thrown pebbles so seriously...

Anyway comrade, I think the refinement process works the other way around; you don't make unfounded critiques and then expect me to change the game because it doesn't sound right to you merely, the re-construction of any product consists of play-testing, and I should think that video game testers whom are gifted with ESP are rather rare, so that they need play the game, physically, before stating their proposed changes.

Though I dont expect to convince anyone, It's a hard thing to have played with super-quick turns, more because of the thinness of the game then some efficiency, and then to switch over and still remain solid throughout long games, that's a kind of discipline I dont realistically hope to see that from the regular civ crowd anytime soon, but I can tell you that I once too had to make the jump, and I haven't stepped back down since.....

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Nicosar

there is something in this whole 'ultra-dense' huge sort of game

Ultra-dense sounds about right to me.

[rah]

Originally posted by Nicosar
Though I dont expect to convince anyone, It's a hard thing to have played with super-quick turns, more because of the thinness of the game then some efficiency, and then to switch over and still remain solid throughout long games, that's a kind of discipline I dont realistically hope to see that from the regular civ crowd anytime soon, but I can tell you that I once too had to make the jump, and I haven't stepped back down since.....

It's not about discipline at all. It's about boredom.
If it take each player an hour + to do their turn and there are more than 4 players. Just give me a gun with one bullet and I'll end the boredom. I'm even willing to accept an hour turn if it's the culmination of hundreds of years preping to backstab an ally. But if each and every turn is taking that long for every player, the game isn't full and enriching, it's just plain boring and tedious. If I want tedious, I can clean grout in the bathroom.

I laugh at your assesment that reasonably quick turns makes the game thin. More proof (as if we needed it) that you have no real clue about the game. What, can't you enjoy a game without moving 1000 units a turn? Or do the mega games hide your inability to master the basic game?

I can remember capturing 7 of war4's cities in one turn and it only took about 15 minutes. There was nothing thin/boring about it. But if it had taken an hour, nothing I could have done could have maintained the same excitement. Within a few turns, the nukes started flying with all the supporting unit movements. It was a classic turn in the history of CIV. But it only took about 10 minutes.

QUALITY not QUANTITY.

Besides, simple math dictates the unfeasability of your type of game. Let's assume a hardy 7 hour session. (any longer and we're usually to drunk to see),once a week. If you have 6 or 7 players taking an hour each, Man may actually land on alpha centuri before anyone in the game does.

RAH

[Flatlander Fox]

Originally posted by rah

QUALITY not QUANTITY.

Besides, simple math dictates the unfeasability of your type of game. Let's assume a hardy 7 hour session. (any longer and we're usually to drunk to see),once a week. If you have 6 or 7 players taking an hour each, Man may actually land on alpha centuri before anyone in the game does.

RAH

@Alpha Centauri crack


You have playtested this you say?

Why no events?

Why do the barbs get techs faster than you do.

With that huge map, you can wander around FOREVER and not find ANYTHING, which is the key to the game.

It's not very well balanced, he who finds the cities first will win EVERY time. And the beginning forces are not fast enough or numerous enough to offset the shortcomings.

While you can say that I'm throwing rocks at your perfect civ-experience, I will contend that if your experience is so great, why is no one playing it?

Try adding some flavor, some events, reducing the map size, and making the turns a little less long. (You do realize that all of your techs will be discovered by 0 AD)

[War4ever]

its obvious the jedi master has not learned how to use the jedi mind trick or that spock has not master the vulcan mind meld

[Flatlander Fox]

A 266x244 map is farging miserable to play on...

But I am still playing it, maybe I'll get Monarchy before 3700 B.C. (The turns move in two year increments from 4000 B.C. )

It's a neat idea (I said that before, but positive reinforcement is a GOOD thing here), but just too damn big.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by rah

If you have 6 or 7 players taking an hour each, Man may actually land on alpha centuri before anyone in the game does.

RAH

For all his claims of experience of such games I don't think the master really appreciates this fact.....and it is a fact.