Another Age of War PBEM

[The ANZAC]

Ah yes, those railway disputes and the still-born ERC!

[JamesJKirk]

I typed up a whole long explanation, but lost my connection as I was trying to post it, so here I go again
The handover will occur in 4 phases and there are 4 zones to go w/ this: Interim, Provisional, Occupation, and Plebescite. The map ANZAC posted accurately shows the first phase, the only difference I believe is that Hambug, Luebeck, Cologne, Dortmund, Prague and Vienna are all Occupation Zones.

It was bascially agreed that prerequisite for Germany to move past the first phase would have something to do w/ becoming a democracy. A combination of all suggestions would be to have Germany start as a monarchy, then have to research democracy, revolt and become one, and build a palace in Berlin. Germany will also be forbidden from having a password for a certain amount of time, and the Chancellor will be subject to reelection between each phase, or I propose, it one of the Occupying Powers calls for one. As for which techs Germany should have, will the game remember which ones it had when it was defeated?

On the military, there were several proposals floating around for limits, having to do w/ either numerical limits or limits on types of units. I would suggest both, perhaps limit Germany to half or twothirds as many units as Italy or Turkey, and forbid it from having heavy artillery, Armored Cruisers and Battleship-type ships, and eventually tanks and air units. There were suggestions that these last a certain amount of time, but I have no idea how long would be good.

There was also a suggestion that we allow El Awrence some input in what we're building in the cities to be handed over, but I think everyone forgot, so we can go ahead and start this for the second wave of cities and beyond.

For the Plebiscite Areas, it was agreed that Cyrion would be the Plebiscite Moniter, but beyond that, we had no clue how to work this out, so that still needs to be figured out, but we have time.

Also, there were questions about what should be in the cities when we hand them over. I've gone ahead and just left leftover 1 Prussian Conscript in each of the cities so far, does that work?

[Dr. Nick]

Just don't give me a Dresden civ.

I'd like to be democratic too.

[winterfritz]

One of France's proposed conditions is that our eventual frontier with Germany be recognized as the Rhine, and that we be allowed to continue occupying our forts on that river (even though some of these are within two tiles of future German cities).

[JamesJKirk]

I forgot to put that, I have no problem with that, other than what ANZAC said earlier, so long as Germany is able to use its resources, so the forts either have to be on worthless tiles, or you have to have an alliance, which I think we all should do w/ Germany

[The ANZAC]

Yes, the fortresses must not hinder German use of the squares at all. Alliance is good, but what if it ends? Then how do we work it out?

[JamesJKirk]

Well if the alliance is cancelled, France's units will automatically be moved out of German territory, so I don't see a problem there

[winterfritz]

The forts do not hinder German movement at all; there are bypasses around them. AFAIK too, they're on worthless tiles for the most part.

The restoration period can be regarded as sort of a trial period for this measure; if problems arise with these fortifications, France will be happy to work something out with Germany's interim government.

[winterfritz]

Another thing: are we willing to give Germany their unique national tech? While this does (I think) lead to scary powerful German units in the future, I do think it would make things more interesting... and its kind of unfair to make Germany have to put up with substandard default conscripts etc (sorry Cyrion - maybe you can have the German tech too ).

One idea: perhaps Germany could be awarded her special tech at one of the later interim stages of the restoration, after she has proved 'mature' enough (or whatever - rich enough to bribe us all, maybe ) to use it.

[Dr. Nick]

Uhm, the tech should be there by default.

[Dr. Nick]

If Germany is to recognise the Rhine as a border, we ask that this be a temporary border so that the reinclusion of areas of German majority be given the possibility of reuniting with Germany in the future. The same goes with the rest of people holding onto more German cities.

[winterfritz]

I don't think the tech is there, because Germany was totally destroyed - when we restart it, it will have zero tech AFAIK.

If Germany is to recognise the Rhine as a border, we ask that this be a temporary border so that the reinclusion of areas of German majority be given the possibility of reuniting with Germany in the future. The same goes with the rest of people holding onto more German cities.

I don't like this German leader, lets get a new one

Seriously though: France is unwilling to discuss the matter of the Rhine frontier. Germany can either accept the matter of the frontier, or attack France, get beaten to a bloody pulp by France's invincible armies, and then meekly accept the matter of the frontier.

[JamesJKirk]

Well if Germany as well as the techs are all the way gone, we could open up the last turn that it played in and see what it has and go from there, and maybe, if we're nice decided to give Germany a couple more techs.

Britain backs France on the issue of the Rhineland. All of us have been nice enough to give Germany what land it will receive, any further exchange of territory will have to be done bilaterally and after the full transition period, or as France said, by fruitless attempts at conquest.

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by winterfritz
France's invincible armies

Yeah, sure...

Oh, you meant in the game, sorry!

So guys, I don't know if I have my say in this matter (as I wasn't involved in the war against Germany), but well, I'll speak as a fellow player then...

First, I think Germany need to have the German tech from the start: they ARE german, after all...

And if we want to hinder them from getting the strong units too fast, then you can act on the other techs you give them (limiting them, I mean...)

As for the techs they have from the start, I think the one they had at the end of the war would be alright: the occupation has logically hindered their scientific development, and it's not as if they lost 10s of techs!

Of course, if you think they would be much too far behind, then give them a few techs, but only those without any military application, maybe??

But once again, these are just player's thoughts and don't reflect in any matter the opinion of the Turkish government...

[The ANZAC]

I agree with Cyrion: Germany should get all its techs back, but just have unit restrictions on types and numbers.

Also France can have their border at the Rhine if they allow the Rhine River squares to be a DMZ and then the fortresses would be on the French side.