History of the World . . .

[The Capo]

Speech given in Manchester to soldiers headed to America before departure...

I stand before you not as a King, as a Monarch or Emperor, but as a fellow Adriatic. Today you begin a long and dangerous journey, one that has only been achieved by a select few, one that will live on in history whether you are successful or not. There have been many fears as of late, many assumptions. We look accross the great deserts of the Khazak steppe, we look accross the glorious Mediterranean, we look into South America, into Asia prepared for the worst horrors: An international incursion. As a nation we feel helpless and frustrated, our viewpoint is being ignored and mangled by politics. We have grown and developed in a world that does not trust us, for whatever reason, this distrust is unfounded and unfair. We have grown in a world where a most powerful alliance looms in the east, we have chosen not to let this effect us, we have chosen not to let fear rule our nation. A new regime arose in the Mali Kingdom, King Rahim Abdul wrenched power from Ray King. He made large claims, made threats, again we did not allow fear to rule our nation. Talk, whether idle or realistic, has spread throughout the world, talk of an Asian intervention in the Mali-Adriatic war have hit home quite harshly, again we do not allow fear to rule our nation. To the world you are greedy tyrants, to the world you are undeserving of what is yours, to the world you are evil. Men I look upon you, the youth of the Adriatic League, you are our future and I believe in your ability to defend this nation at all costs. Most of you will perish, most of you will never see your homes again, most of you will never see the glory of Europe after you set sail for your various encampments. You will never again see your family, your friends, your life being wrestled away from you be the greedy Mali. But men you must fight, fight your hearts out, you must be brave courageous and dogged in battle. Do not give one inch, not one! You will die, but you will live on forever, for you will be the men that have ignored the petty politics, and greed and tyranny of this wretched planet, you will be the beacon of virtue and bravery. Stand up to them, for they are wrong. As they are wrong we are right. And as we are right, my friends, we shall be victorious! Now go to, and save your nation!

[Mr Dimbleby]

I can't play before 8 next week. I am scheduled to work overtime next Thursday, so I won't leave from work until 7EST, which means I won't be arriving home until about 8.

[Mr Dimbleby]

I can't play before 8 next week. I am scheduled to work overtime next Thursday, so I won't leave from work until 7EST, which means I won't be arriving home until about 8.

I would be able to play a supplemental session Tuesday from 8 -11 though.

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Thousands of monkeys are creating havoc in the corridors of power, barging into government offices, stealing food, threatening bureaucrats, and even ripping apart valuable documents.

Hey! That dried vomit under the couch looks like a horny toad.

[Guest]

Your Tues no good for me - I work Weds here.

Am happy for that longer session on any of your Thursday nights though.

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*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924

[The Capo]

Alright I just want to say a few things before we continue with our normal posting and whatever...

The past three weeks have been substandard as far as normal gaming goes. The first week War4 didn't show and we were forced to omit that session, the second week we had connection problems with Deity not to mention the coup de etat if you will for two seperate nations, this past week there were again connection problems (on my part) as well as a pointless joke (again on my part) resulting in an early retirement and subsequent two hour session.

I find it necessary that we play some type of suppliment session or extra time or something to get this game back on track. Drake has suggested the following: We play from 6:00pm EST (U.S) until 12:00 am EST (U.S.) I understand that this may be an issue for everyone in the group. So I took the liberty to question a few of the players. As Drake was the one who suggested it I assume he was good for this time slot, I am, Chris said he would be, Deity said he would be, Sekong said he would be, Prometheus said he would be, which only leaves Dimbleby. In order for this to go through we may have to omit the last hour in Drake's plan and end at the normal 11:00 pm EST (U.S.) time slot.

So I guess I am asking Dimb whether or not he can play from 6:00 pm to 11:00 pm next week?

I do understand that initially we agreed that the time was to begin each week at 8:00 pm. But I am asking for some type of sacrifice from each of you in order to make this thing work. I am basically at your mercy Dimb, I think the whole group is. I offer the following suggestion, if this is too late of notice for you to set up the extra two hours, then I think the group would suggest we do it the following week. Either way a good solid auxillery session/time frame would help this game.

A new rules.txt will be needed again next week, I apologize but a few glitches were discovered in my regular playtest after this past session and I want to correct those glitches. But this isn't entirely bad, if you noticed any mistakes or what anything changed for your particular tribe (the Monarch title of Pharoah for the Mali for instance) just make it known to me and I will fix it, consider this a clean up week. The game's a mess but our group's been handling it much better than I think anyone would have predicted.

Alright well, the new suppliment rules.txt (and possibly a graphics change here or there) will be up on Monday or Tuesday. This time around I would really like some feedback on what you guys think should/will happen in the next few weeks, because they are important for the survival of this game. Thanks a lot, peace.

[The Capo]

<center></center>

The Following Is the Declaration of Independence of the Various Nations of Europe from the Kingdom and House of Habsburg.

The nature of man is independant and competitive. Both of which have been negated and compramised under the reign of any Monarch. For a whole people to be held under the rule of one single man, one single family, or one single iron law not of their own collective creation is unnatural and degrading. It is under these truths that the Nations of Europe declare their independence from the Kingdom and House of Habsburg.

The grievances of the people are numerous. Thousands of men were sent on long journies accross the sea only to be told to return home by a King who decided it was in his best interest to make it so. Projects for development at home were put to a halt during this time of war, and were simply put back on track, the loss being suffered by the people rather than the government. Pounds and pounds of gold were poured into projects that were never finished due to political strife and bargianing, again the people suffered without a single ounce of respect towards their feelings or tribulations.

The forced faith towards Roman Catholicism has been a tribulation upon the peace of these people, tythes upon tythes are being levied in order to support the chosen faith of the King, and while the vast majority of the citizenry proscribes to this faith its forced servitude on all of them shall be seen as yet another form of survitude towards the King, who by no official act of doctrine or sacrament claims himself to be ordained by god to rule his people.

Constant taxation of income and shipping has been a detriment to the proliferation of trade and enterprise, these rights to property gained by fair means shall not be abridged, however the King has seen fit to use the prosperity of the people to line his pockets.

The idea that one man can command the futures of thousands upon battlefields, allowing them to be slaughtered by terrible enemies simply for the wealth of the King is to be ended. If the collective sees fit to make war we shall see fit to make war.

Based on proscribed grievances, and many others to which have not been delineated we make the following changes to the governance of the people of Europe and its various nations and territories therein or abroad.

I. The right to elect and thus change the government shall not be denied.

II. The seperation of church and taxes and dues of and by the church shall in no way be enforced or regulated by the government of the people of Europe and its various colonies therein and abroad.

III. The military of the people shall be regulated and dispatched at the behest of a government established and ordained by the people, and shall not be used in any way which goes against the collective will of the people.

IV. No laws shall be enacted upon the people unless at the majority vote of a collective representation of the people.

V. No person of title shall be exempt from the laws of the common people.

VI. No title of nobility thus related to the will of a church, parish, faction, or otherwise may be granted upon any citizen unless at the behest of the collective of the people.

VII. No treaty or agreement with a foreign power is to be made unless lineated by a majority of a representation of the collective of the people.

VIII. No state or geographic entity within the union of European provinces, duchies, states, or territories shall be more powerful than the other parts of the union, and no state or territory or province or duchy or geographic entity shall weild more power than the collective of these states, territories, provinces, duchies, or geographic entities.

IX. Only laws proscribed by a representation of the collective of the people shall be enforced upon any citizen of this country or any other within the boundries of this nation.

X. The access to any worship however much in the minority, any expression of ideology or belief however much in the minority or however much considered offensive to others shall be abridged upon any citizen of this or any other nation within the boundries of this nation. No act of legislation whether or not by the collective may abridge this notion.

Based on the previous ten criteria, we hereby declare this collective of European States formally known as the United Adriatic Kingdoms or Adriatic League to be now deemed the Unified Adriatic States, any rules or regulations signed by the former United Adriatic Kingdoms or its governing entities shall hereby be withdrawn with the exception of any former international arrangements which the new government shall respect unless it deems otherwise.

We now declare these States Adriatic a Republic.

N. Bonaparte
V. Emanuele
N. Machiavelli
G. Garibaldi
E. Cavour
S. Montpinsiere
W. Von Oranj - Nassau
L. Eriksson
P. Wilhelm
S. Salvador
G. Pochenko
K. Attaturk
O. Cromwell
B. Greco
M. Mazzini
E. Panini
G. Mantucci

[The Capo]

Alright, here is my question for you Dimb.

Is it possible at all that you play NEXT Thursday from 6:00-11:00? It is quite important that we at least get one suppliment session in, we need something to kick start this game. Granted it is surviving, but its on life support. So I am willing to figure out a better day to play an extra session, this week Drake can't do an extra one, so may be next week would be a good idea to start figuring out a day/time/whatever for this suppliment session to occur on.

Other than that, I don't think our issues are that bad. Everyone seems to be taking the past three weeks' problems in stride. I think that is a good indication of the types of players we have assembled for this game, and it makes me quite optimistic about this game seeing its proper finish (knock on wood).

So all in all I am quite pleased with how we've been handling everything, and I think that if we get this supplimental session in we can really be better off than we are now. Godwilling this session goes off without a hitch.

Peace.

[sekong]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by drake on 03-28-2001 03:49 PM</font>
Absolutely not an option for a diplo game. You can't be diplomatic when you're playing single player because the AI doesn't usually represent your intentions very well. Your AI representative goes and signs an alliance with someone and boom. Game screwed up.

I appreciate the idea of wanting to get more play time in with the game, but it's just not an option for this sort of game. Sorry


<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

I have to bring back, because I think it's really an option worth of consideration. Since most of drake's concern is AI diplomatic part, we can make the rule that NEVER do dipo with AI. As my concern of re-open huts or reload game, etc., We can make another rule that at leat 2 player together make the game progress.

Generally We just need a player A on his turn and at least one another player, who should be the player next to player A. If you want to dipo or war, just add one other party you dipo/war with, then the game can move. Each time just need 5-10 min depend on how many players involved.

The biggest problem of general dipo is that you need have all 7 players together in a big chunck of time, say 3 hours. Therefore it's difficult to arrange. But in above method, we need only 2+ players together for 5 min or so then we can have the game move.

For example, next time I see deity on line, We set up 5 min's game, I keep the sav. Next time I see capo, we can have another move. and so on.

Please, every one speak out what do u think about it.

[GNGSpam]

PBEM is completely out of the question for me. For one, I like for my sessions scheduled. The rest of my time is very haphazard. I cant just "pick up" a game all the time. Sometimes im free a lot, sometimes I have NO free day.

But this goes beyond, I run constant running diplomacy. From the time I enter to a couple of hours after a session ends im talking to someone about something. PBEM hinders a running "contact", and were a situation to come up, such as war, I would be completely hamstrung in my ability to respond.

PS I am not opposed to making up time, but you need to SCHEDULE it so that I can plan my week around these events. I have a life like I suspect everyone else does too, and it unfourtantly does not stand still for Civ2 despite my fondest desires.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by GNGSpam (edited April 03, 2001).]</font>

[The Capo]

As I said earlier, the only day I can really play a solid sessoin of Civ is the day we play our game. Chris knows this firsthand from the other day, I have patches of time available but its so unpredictable and split apart that I couldn't really fit in another session UNLESS we planned it a week in advance.

As Drake suggested we could add two hours to the beginning of this next session and start at 6:00pm EST rather than the normal 8:00pm EST timeslot. Everyone but Dimbleby said this would suffice, Dimb I am pleading with you as the "captain" of this group to make the time available next week so we can get this suppliment session out of the way and get back on track. I don't beg a lot, but I am begging for you to make this a reality right now. If you can't do it the week following this Thursday's session then I implore you to free it up for the week following that. I think this would help lift the morale of the game, which by the way I don't think is half as bad as it would be in a normal group.

So I'd like to thank everyone for the effort they've been putting into this game, the posts, showing up on time and having patience has really helped this game make its mark around here and that's a positive thing for the Diplogaming genre.

I'd appreciate it if everyone could find the time to write up a short two paragraph statement for the website, Drake has really been working hard on it and we have been geting a lot of hits lately so we think its a good part of the game and the more content it has the better the responses are, so please try and write something up for the website I'd really appreciate it.

Other than that everything has been really awesome, I knew when I looked at our "roster" that this was going to be a solid bunch of players, anything I say in posts or in the game is just that, I hold all of you in the highest regards.

Peace.

[The Capo]

(I dunno what Chris was thinking but he put this post in the regular MP area, so this is a MALI POST, this is not an ADRIATIC POST, thank you and here goes...)

Ninth Legion
Commandant Hatter Abdul

Troops having marched the breadeth of the Great Northern Forest arrive in position southeast of Salzburg, north of the source of the Barri River (known natively as the Mississippi, flowing east), east of the Fourth Mounted.

Bivouked for night, sentries placed 100 yards in all directions. No sign of native activity.

Food plentiful, Land is dry but could be quite profitable with some development.

Reports from Commandant Sikasso Garalo say his Fiftenth Legion has arrived at the joining of the Barri River and the Tinkisso Rivers (the Missouri flowing south) and will begin movement by boat towards our position.

Brigader Mourdiah Nara of the Fourth Mounted further sends reports of "All Quiet"

We will strike camp and head out in the morning.

[sekong]

Thanks to drake and Chris about your oppions about my suggestions. It just remind me of something that maybe I did not put them clearly:
1. All I suggested was about a supplement of our regular thursday session, not a replacement of it.
2. What I suggested is not a generally PBEM, which I understand is single
player playing+passing file to next player. Instead, what I suggested
was 2+ players' gathering when we can't have all 7 players on-line at
same time.
3. It's a new question to drake, Chris and others not speaking out yet: If you can't do it yourself, do you mind other players have a such short session, then STOP BEFORE your turn?

Thanks

[The Capo]

Sekong I know this is going to be hard for you to understand:

Drake and Chris's problems arent that they get skipped, or aren't that nobody will be online, its that we won't be together and the atmosphere is different this is a DIPLOgame, we aren't playing to finish for the sake of finishing, we are playing for the Diplomatic aspects, and we are playing to finish becuase we achieved that level.

Speed should not be our MAIN concern, effective playtime should be what we consider most important, and by effective I mean quality playtime that is enjoyable. Hopefully that allayed your questions.

I have yet to hear a response from Dimbleby, its an important matter and I HATE to think that he doesn't check out the thread when he gets the chance...

[sekong]

Seems there is miscommunication here. I suggest what I did because I WANT to be more DIPO. Given a large empire, I need time to arrange them. I think if we could have a small in-between session, I should be able to review my cities and manage them. Then during the REAL session, I may do less management and more dipo. I think I said it in my very first post about these. Did I make myself clear ?

[Prometheus]

I don’t know if I will be able to play that early on the Thursday before Easter. I can let you know sometime next week; it depends on when my drive is leaving to go home. And if we decide to go with Sekong idea of playing a turn or two between games that’s cool with me.

Now game issues:

To the Adriatic’s:

By no means has the Chinese Empire held the Adriatic’s in ill will, however we believe that you have taken everything out of proportion. Our Empire has had some hard times with the civil war and reestablishing of the monarchy. So let us put your fears to rest, as most of you messages have gotten lost in the mail so to speak.

Now honestly good King of the Adriatic’s do you think so little of your army patrols that one of the Pacific Pact could ever place a city in the middle of your empire. Please sir, this is silly, the people of the Chinese embassy have were joking around with one another when such a message was sent due to the outbreak of civil war. Taking it seriously as you did makes us wonder if you are using any excuse to go to war with our Mongol neibors, especially with such a ludicrous statement as the one that was sent.

Next you accuse the Chinese empire of a military build up. I do not know whether to laugh or cry at such a statement, the Chinese empire has less military units than it does cities. If that is a military build up I am the King of Zululand.

Now we comes the issue of the Mongol city in Chinese territories, we understand the Adriatic’s concern but as the Chinese can not settle as fast as other powers due to fewer recourses we asked the Mongols to build a city or two in our territory and then gift it to us to help us settle our land.

As you can see these our just misunderstandings due to our communications being out of sorts as the new monarchy cemented its control. We ask you to re-recognize our claims and to withdraw your troops from Mongolian territory.


Sincerely,

King Prometheus