Announcement

**finbar** · January 18, 2001, 23:43

Subject to the usual short-notice hiccups, I'm available pretty much whenever.

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Founder, ACS Pedantry Institute
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#33984591

**Crustacian** · January 19, 2001, 03:05

Thursday eves are just not going to work for me.
Wed eves are now open, and tue eves would be a second choice.

**Crustacian** · January 19, 2001, 03:12

Looks like not everyone voted...I only count up to 5 votes per item.
tech stealing is something I would like to see a total of 7 votes on if possible.

Hurray for the Russians! I would have wanted anything but them!
"an you just threw me in dat briar patch"~Bre'r Rabbit

I hope we can get a time figured that works for us all.
I am the most limited it sounds like.

**finbar** · January 19, 2001, 08:33

I didn't vote, Crusty, because I got back from overseas and didn't catch up with all that stuff. For the record, my vote wouldn't change anything. Even the Explorer movement vote would have been unaffected. I wouldn't have voted for 12, so we'd have the same result. I can only applaud the vote to ban city bribes.

Who else didn't vote?

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Founder, ACS Pedantry Institute
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#33984591

**Curumbor Elendil** · January 19, 2001, 10:22

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Crustacian on 01-19-2001 02:12 AM</font>
Looks like not everyone voted...I only count up to 5 votes per item.
tech stealing is something I would like to see a total of 7 votes on if possible.

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Yeah, not everyone voted on every question. I'm coming up with a small additional rule that might allay some of your concerns (to be posted below).

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>
I hope we can get a time figured that works for us all.
I am the most limited it sounds like.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Check your ICQ... We're now thinking Saturday evenings. How is that for you?

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

**Curumbor Elendil** · January 19, 2001, 10:23

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by finbar on 01-19-2001 07:33 AM</font>
Who else didn't vote?

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Jedi.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

**Curumbor Elendil** · January 19, 2001, 10:31

I'm making some additional cosmetic changes to the rules.txt. I'm renaming Oracle to Acropolis (I'm concerned about the realism of its not expiring - the Oracle does not exist today, but the Acropolis does) and Acropolis (formerly Great Library) to Homer's "Odyssey."

Also, I'm changing the names of the gov't types again. First, I'm changing to Anarchy to Chaos (as an anarchist I don't think Civ gives that legal system the respect it is due ). Second, I'm changing Monarchy to Absolute Monarchy and Aristocracy (formerly Republic) to Limited Monarchy. The default title under Despotism is to be Chief, under Absolute Monarchy Emperor, under Limited Monarchy King. This is to take into account the fact that Germany, Austria, Russia, and Turkey had very robust monarchies in 1914, but they weren't very far behind technologically (at least, Germany and Austria weren't). I think I might also try to make Democracy harder to get until later in the game - it just wouldn't do to have a Democratic Europe in 800 AD. Maybe make econ a prereq. Anyway, back to the gov't names. For the Italians, you can think of Limited Monarchy as classical or medieval republicanism, or city-state monarchy: the form that prevailed until unification under Garibaldi (1871?). Your title under Ltd. Monarchy will be "Consul," but you can always reconceptualize that as "Podesta" or whatever.

I'm changing leader names to reflect what they were in 1900 (like the Diplomacy board game!).

That's about it.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

**Crustacian** · January 19, 2001, 12:20

Wed eves pacific time from 5:30 on
sundays from 12noon on
these are my best consistant times.
sat would be a conflict sometimes.
I should leave my thursdays alone for now, but they may be open down the road sometime maybe for the next game if i can't sqeez in this one.
The Russ await the word of the world to awaken them from their mundane tasks to build an empire!

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The journey itself is the thing~Odysseus

**Curumbor Elendil** · January 19, 2001, 12:33

Well, frankly, Saturdays would be a conflict with me too sometimes. I'm afraid the needs of the many outweigh the needs of one in this case (sorry Deity ). Is there anyone besides Deity who can't do Wednesday evenings at 8:30 eastern/5:30 pacific/12:30 pm Thursday Aussie? (That's probably the best time for me.) I'd hate to lose a player, but apparently there is no time when all seven of us can get together!

I've made some final changes. I made Economics rather than Banking one of the prereqs for Democracy, I renamed Copernicus' Observatory Galileo's Telescope (and got a cool graphic for it), and I did the government and leader name changes mentioned above. You can download it here. This should be the FINAL file.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

**Guest** · January 19, 2001, 17:02

Next Thursday Aussie time (your Weds night) should be OK. I'll organise a sub, probably Lowang if available, for future Thursdays that may be a problem.

Crusty aint kicking me outta Britain that easy

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*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924

**Curumbor Elendil** · January 19, 2001, 20:32

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by deity on 01-19-2001 04:02 PM</font>
Next Thursday Aussie time (your Weds night) should be OK. I'll organise a sub, probably Lowang if available, for future Thursdays that may be a problem.

Crusty aint kicking me outta Britain that easy

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Great! So, hearing no objections, we play the first round next week, Wednesday at 8:30 PM Eastern Standard Time.

I forgot to mention one additional house rule: you can't give, receive, steal, or take by conquest any technology for which you don't have all the prerequisites. This eliminates absurdities like having industrialization but not magnetism, economics but not banking, and so on.

Also, as I mentioned before, it would be really cool if everyone tried to make their stories and play (city naming, e.g.) historically & geographically accurate. To that end, here are some resources that should help.

PCL Map Collection: Europe Maps - lots of historical maps for naming your 'cities' after real regions. Also check out the shaded relief maps for individual countries, which often have the administrative regions labelled.

Emulateme.com History - brief histories of various countries, should help with stories.

Encyclopedia Britannica Online - useful for stories and for city naming, the articles on national histories are very detailed, and they have some maps too.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

**finbar** · January 19, 2001, 20:45

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Curumbor Elendil on 01-19-2001 09:31 AM</font>
I'm making some additional cosmetic changes to the rules.txt. I'm renaming Oracle to Acropolis (I'm concerned about the realism of its not expiring - the Oracle does not exist today, but the Acropolis does) and Acropolis (formerly Great Library) to Homer's "Odyssey."

Also, I'm changing the names of the gov't types again. First, I'm changing to Anarchy to Chaos (as an anarchist I don't think Civ gives that legal system the respect it is due ). Second, I'm changing Monarchy to Absolute Monarchy and Aristocracy (formerly Republic) to Limited Monarchy. The default title under Despotism is to be Chief, under Absolute Monarchy Emperor, under Limited Monarchy King. This is to take into account the fact that Germany, Austria, Russia, and Turkey had very robust monarchies in 1914, but they weren't very far behind technologically (at least, Germany and Austria weren't). I think I might also try to make Democracy harder to get until later in the game - it just wouldn't do to have a Democratic Europe in 800 AD. Maybe make econ a prereq. Anyway, back to the gov't names. For the Italians, you can think of Limited Monarchy as classical or medieval republicanism, or city-state monarchy: the form that prevailed until unification under Garibaldi (1871?). Your title under Ltd. Monarchy will be "Consul," but you can always reconceptualize that as "Podesta" or whatever.

I'm changing leader names to reflect what they were in 1900 (like the Diplomacy board game!).

That's about it.

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

You'd be a smash hit in the Democratic Republic of Congo about now, Curembor.

------------------
Founder, ACS Pedantry Institute
Founder, ACS Gourmet Recipe Exchange
Troll & Hydey Wrangler
Mono Rules!
#33984591

**finbar** · January 19, 2001, 20:55

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Curumbor Elendil on 01-19-2001 07:32 PM</font>

I forgot to mention one additional house rule: you can't give, receive, steal, or take by conquest any technology for which you don't have all the prerequisites. This eliminates absurdities like having industrialization but not magnetism, economics but not banking, and so on.

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Not sure how this can be controlled. What happens, for example, if you take an opponent's city and there's only one tech up for grabs? And it's Economics and you don't have Banking? There's no means of refusing the tech, is there?

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Founder, ACS Pedantry Institute
Founder, ACS Gourmet Recipe Exchange
Troll & Hydey Wrangler
Mono Rules!
#33984591

**Crustacian** · January 19, 2001, 21:58

Wed it is then!!
What? Deity is still in Britain? Good!
It is really AC we want to fill with our Russ Culture.

Has everyone confirmed their playing availablity?

Jedi are you there?

The trouble with those things you mention on being able to steal techs for which you have no pre-requisites is that it can be difficult to achieve.

Still possible is no stealing
no tech on city capture
stealing with advent of espionage only

But either way you have gifting and trading which is very hard to govern.

I don't really care (maybe civ3 will fix it) if someone gets economics before banking, and with any tech trading/srealing at all going on no one will ever gain a tactical lead over anybody militarily anyways.

So maybe any practical concerns are needless.

**finbar** · January 20, 2001, 00:46

Hear hear, Crusty.

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Founder, ACS Pedantry Institute
Founder, ACS Gourmet Recipe Exchange
Troll & Hydey Wrangler
Mono Rules!
#33984591

Announcement

Crustacian Berzerker Deity Finbar Markus Jediscum (New Millennium Eurodiplomacy)

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