Crustacian Berzerker Deity Finbar Markus Jediscum (New Millennium Eurodiplomacy)

[Crustacian]

I know you want Austria, but it would be too close to Germany for me.

So would choose after a bit of play testing:

1)Turkey
2)Italy


They are just the only two civs that are so close, and this would be a possible way to scape things out a bit more there if it sounds interesting to you. If not it is only a suggestion.

[Curumbor Elendil]

My first reaction to "Dacians" is that it seems like the odd one out compared to the other civs, which all represent modern nations that also have fairly ancient traditions. Maybe "Romanians" would work, though? My second reaction is that this civ would actually be hurt by a relocation south. Why? Because Germany will be able to expand south and take the areas that would otherwise be occupied by Vienna and Salzburg. There would be less room for the civ to expand than otherwise. I probably would no longer choose the Austrians under such circumstances (though I can't speak for Markus, who also wants them). If the Germans and Austrians can reach an early accommodation (as I expect they would), then there should be no problem with the fact that their capitals are fairly close together. However, one good idea might be to move the second Austrian city south. This would still hurt the Austrians, but it would help the Germans and Italians somewhat. Of course, I'm not sure the Germans and Italians need more help...I'll try it out though and see what happens.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Curumbor Elendil]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Crustacian on 01-09-2001 08:23 PM</font>
POSSIBLE CITY NAMES yes a few of these are provinces)

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This brings up an interesting point. I think we should name our 'cities' after provinces, as the Civ conception of a 'city' obviously has no basis in reality. I see you know the PCL Map Collection - I think that's a great resource. What I think would be fun is if everyone used the PCL Maps to name their cities after the actual historical provinces in the actual locations where they put their cities!

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Crustacian]

No Germans don't need more help.
Romania just didn't have a ring to it though. Maybe Dacia doesn't either hehe.

If German, I would only be interested to not have Berlin on edge of civ. is all. Maybe Germans are more well suited for someone who likes interaction between civs more than me. If Austria & Germany have takers, then maybe it is best I select either Turkey or Italy.
I dont want to push Deity off Britain til in the game

[Curumbor Elendil]

New download! I changed the 2nd Austrian city from Salzburg, to the southwest of Vienna, to Budapest, to the southeast of Vienna. This change helps the Italians more than anyone, though it may also ease the mind of the German player. It doesn't seem to hurt the Austrians. Also, in the new download I've changed the AI attitudes so that it's easier to play against the AI in early stages of the game - this should help all non-British players when you want to do single player or multiplay testing with AIs. Finally, I changed the sound made by the Mounted Lancers from the elephant sound to the "sword horse" sound.

I played a little single player under the new settings, and this is how the Austrian empire stood in 1670. I post this merely to show how I named the cities. I tried to name them after the actual historical regions covering the territories where I built these cities. This image shows most of my empire, except for Tirol and Trieste to the west and Dobrusha and Odessa to the east. Kosovo was a city I built that was taken by the Turks. "Kent. Makedonia" is short for "Kentriki Makedonia" (Central Macedonia).



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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Crustacian]

Tried out your update as Turks, and it was fun running the gauntlet with trade laden vessels headed for Britania. Some were never heard from again. Noticed that aircraft had more movement too, and this was interesting. Seemed proportionate with the map. Do the Stealths have the same ADM values as in TOT the supposedly most current "stock" version?

In TOT they adjusted cruise missiles attack down from 20 to 18

Fighters, stealth fighters, and stealth bombers defense factors have been increased slightly it says.

Colossus affects sea squares as well...don't know if you can duplicate that one.

*Turks wurks for me Curumber*

[markusf]

After playing the "latest" map i would like the turks

2. italy
3. austria

[Curumbor Elendil]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Crustacian on 01-13-2001 11:40 AM</font>
Noticed that aircraft had more movement too, and this was interesting. Seemed proportionate with the map.

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Yeah, that was the idea behind it.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>
Do the Stealths have the same ADM values as in TOT the supposedly most current "stock" version?

In TOT they adjusted cruise missiles attack down from 20 to 18

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

I don't have TOT so I didn't realize they did that. No, I didn't change ADM values for any of those units. Do you know what the logic was for doing that?

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
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Colossus affects sea squares as well...don't know if you can duplicate that one.

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

I could swear Colossus affected sea squares in regular Civ too!

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
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*Turks wurks for me Curumber*
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Heh heh OK, I'll make them your first choice, Germans second - though so far it looks as if you'll get the Turks (just waiting on Finbar's picks....)

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Berzerker]

Just let me know when you are done playing with the map so I can download the final version

[Curumbor Elendil]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Berzerker on 01-16-2001 05:19 AM</font>
Just let me know when you are done playing with the map so I can download the final version
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

I've definitely finished playing around with the map. Your civ preferences shouldn't be changing much: all I've done during the past couple weeks is to detach Ireland from Britain and to move Austria's second city... The new download just has some new graphics and a couple new units for realism (added a Zeppelin unit, Jet Fighter, Jet Bomber, and Heavy Armor - while reducing the capabilities of the regular Armor, Fighter, & Bomber).



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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Curumbor Elendil]

OK, Finbar's got his preferences in now, so I will now throw dice to get the civ assignments! Here are everyone's ordered preferences:
1) me: Austria, France, Germany, Britain
2) Deity: Britain, France, Turkey, Germany
3) Markus: Turkey, Italy, Austria, France
4) Berzerker: Britain, Austria, Germany, Turkey, France
5) Crustacian: Turkey, Germany, Italy, Britain
6) Jediscum: France, Italy, Turkey
7) Finbar: Turkey, Italy

I foresee a problem since no one has taken Russia. I guess whoever doesn't get assigned a civ will get Russia. Since no one else has chosen Austria and France, those civs are given to Elendil and Jediscum, respectively.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Curumbor Elendil]

I have carried out the die rolls sequentially, giving a fair chance to everyone.

Deity beat Berzerker for Britain. Markus beat Crustacian and Finbar for Turkey. Finbar gets Italy as it was no one else's second choice (except Markus, who'd already gotten Turkey). Germany is the second choice of both Berzerker and Crustacian: Berzerker won. So Crustacian gets assigned Russia.

If everyone thinks that Russia gets a raw deal, I can change some of their terrain. Personally, I think they're in a great spot, and I don't know why no one gave them a top pick. So here are the final civ assignments: Elendil - Austria, Deity - Britain, Markus - Turkey, Berzerker - Germany, Crustacian - Russia, Jediscum - France, Finbar - Italy.

Regarding the issues of the game, this is how the votes went:

Ban diplo guiding: passes 3-1.

12-move explorer: tie 2-2. In the interests of compromise, I'll reduce it to a 6-move explorer.

Ban tech from conquest: fails 2-3.

Ban or limit city bribe: ban wins 3-2. I will be making spies and diplos easy to build again.

Simul war or turn-based war: turn-based wins 3-2. We'll start the game using the honor system, but if that fails, we'll switch simul off during wars.

Now we need to get a time for the game. Unfortunately, the only time when the Aussies are available (Thursday night) Crustacian is not. What about playing the game on US Saturday afternoon, Australia Sunday evening?

I'll be making another post summarizing all the "house rules" and changes to the rules.txt, as well as game settings.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Curumbor Elendil]

SUMMARY OF RULES CHANGES

I. HOUSE RULES

A. Using diplomats, spies, caravans, or freights to guide units past zones of control is forbidden. It's OK to use partisans for that purpose.

B. City bribery is banned. All other espionage functions are allowed.

C. You must declare war a turn before attacking someone. During that turn the other side may attack you. This rule does not apply to espionage. You may undertake any espionage activity without giving warning.

D. During war, you must respect the turn order of play (applies to all civs located near the conflict whose units could possibly interfere in the war).

II. Rules.txt Changes

A. Cosmic
1) Communism pays for all units past 5 (changed from 3)
2) Max paradrop range - 20 (changed from 10)
3) Mass-thrust paradigm - 150 (changed from 75)

B. Civilization Advances
1) Combined Arms now requires Mobile Warfare and Flight (not Advanced Flight)
2) Fusion Power now requires Unified Field Theory (user-added tech) and Stealth
3) The Republic changed to Oligarchy
4) Future Technology now requires Fusion Power and Environmentalism (rather than Recycling)
5) Unified Field Theory created, requiring Nuclear Power and Superconductor

C. City Improvements
1) MarketPlace changed to Marketplace.
2) Colosseum changed to Stadium.
3) SDI Defense eliminated.
4) SS Structural now requires Superconductor, SS Component requires Unified Field Theory, and SS Module requires Fusion Power.
5) Pyramids changed to Viaduct.
6) Hanging Gardens changed to Stonehenge.
7) Shields required for Lighthouse reduced from 200 to 100.
8) Great Library changed to Acropolis.
9) Shields for Oracle raised from 300 to 400.
10) Great Wall changed to Castles of the Kingdom.
11) Sun Tzu's War Academy changed to Holy Crusades.
12) King Richard's Crusade changed to King's Blacksmithy.
13) Adam Smith's Trading Company changed to Financial Centre (Adam Smith never had a trading company!).
14) Statue of Liberty changed to Declaration of the Rights of Man.
15) Shields required for Magellan's Expedition reduced from 400 to 200.
16) Eiffel Tower eliminated.
17) Hoover Dam changed to Hydroelectric Project.
18) Manhattan Project eliminated.
19) United Nations changed to League of Nations, shields required reduced to 300 from 600.
20) Apollo Program changed to The Sputnik.
21) SETI Program changed to The Internet.

D. Expiration advancements for Wonders of the World
1) Viaduct expires with Refrigeration.
2) Oracle does not expire.

E. Units
1) Hit points for settlers reduced from 2 to 1, defense rating stays the same.
2) Fanatics changed to Stormtroopers.
3) Alpine Troops changed to Recon Troops, now requires Automobile to be built.
4) Cost of Marines reduced to 60 shields (I think that's a change).
5) Elephant changed to Mntd. Lancers.
6) Armor: requires Automobile, attack rating reduced to 8, defense rating to 4, +50% against horse, shields reduced to 60, moves to 2, expires with Mobile Warfare.
7) Howitzer: firepower reduced from 2 to 1, shields required increased from 70 to 80.
8) Fighter: moves increased to 20.
9) Bomber: requires Flight, moves increased to 16, attack rating changed to 8, defense to 2.
10) Helicopter: moves increased to 12.
11) Stlth Ftr.: moves increased to 28.
12) Stlth Bmbr.: moves increased to 24.
13) Trireme: moves increased to 6.
14) Caravel: moves increased to 7.
15) Galleon: moves increased to 8.
16) Frigate: moves increased to 8.
17) Ironclad: moves increased to 8.
18) Destroyer: moves increased to 9.
19) Cruiser: moves increased to 10.
20) AEGIS Cruiser: moves increased to 10.
21) Battleship: moves increased to 8.
22) Submarine: moves increased to 6.
23) Carrier: moves increased to 10.
24) Transport: moves increased to 10.
25) Cruise Msl.: moves increased to 36.
26) Nuclear Msl.: eliminated.
27) Caravan: shields required reduced from 50 to 40.
28) Freight: shields required reduced from 50 to 40.
29) Explorer: movement points changed from 1 to 2, does not expire.
30) New unit: Zeppelin. Expires with Combined Arms, 8 movement points, carries its fuel 8 turns, 0 attack, 1 defense, 1 hit point, 1 firepower, 60 shields required, can spot submarines, can see 2 spaces, requires Flight.
31) New unit: Trade Vessel. Expires with Magnetism, six moves, 0 attack, 1 defense, 1 hit/fire, 40 shields, carries two, requires Map Making, drowns offshore.
32) New unit: Heavy Armor. Exactly like old Armor unit.
33) New unit: Jet Bomber. Does not expire, requires Advanced Flight, moves 20, carries fuel 2 turns, 12 attack, 3 defense, 2 hit/2 fire, 140 shields, sees two spaces. (I think exactly like old Bomber unit, except for not expiring.)
34) New unit: Jet Fighter. Does not expire, requires Advanced Flight, moves 24, carries fuel 1 turn only, 6 attack, 3 defense, 2 hit/2 fire, 70 shields, sees 2, can attack air units.

F. Governments

1) Fundamentalism changed to Fascism.
2) The Republic changed to Aristocracy.

G. Various changes to leader and civ names.

III. GAME SETTINGS

A. 1x1x, Emperor, no barbarians, playing on slightly modified realeurope.mp; use Cheat to reveal map on europe.scn to see map.

B. No huts.

C. Tech paradigm increased from 10/10 to 15/10.

Have I forgotten anything?

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[finbar]

Um ... US Saturday afternoon, depending what time you're talking about, is Sunday morning in Oz. For example, 2pm Saturday US East Coast is 6am Sunday for Deity and me. Call me a nark, but that might present a problem. US Saturday night has more of a chance.

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[Curumbor Elendil]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by finbar on 01-18-2001 06:48 PM</font>
Um ... US Saturday afternoon, depending what time you're talking about, is Sunday morning in Oz. For example, 2pm Saturday US East Coast is 6am Sunday for Deity and me. Call me a nark, but that might present a problem. US Saturday night has more of a chance.

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Oh, right, I was thinking Australia was 28 hours ahead rather than 16 hours ahead... Saturday nights probably aren't very good for most Americans, just because there are so often conflicting engagements. Guess we'll have to shoot for Thursday evenings. Friday morning is the only weekday morning that both you & Deity are available? What about the Americans? Any weekday mornings when you're available?

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989