The way of the apolyton brat

[Civfan]

lol....your kidding right, this is to funny....Eyes you need a good butt kicking...You've been on the throne to long....I've offered but you've only declined... Soon enough I'll knock you down... Crush you and your puny record..

The time has come for new blood, out with the old....

[Berzerker]

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</font>Eyes hosted 5 games in a row and never declared a start tech - must be a new record
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That is amazing, it seems we are much more likely to need 5 restarts to get rid of host techs than to have 5 clean starts in a row.

Carolus Rex, EoN - I still dont understand that continent number check, can either of you explain it once more

Ming, that deal about using unit location to "find" other cities sure sounds like a cheat to me. Its just like clicking on black squares to determine land and sea, but more advantageous since it allows discovering opponents. But I am learning why I'm just a mediocre player, I'm not willing to spend the hours to discover all these tricks or read about them in "strategy" threads, and I dont even want to use them in games.
Are there people here who just play without using tricks?

[Crustacian]

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</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Berzerker on 09-30-2000 04:05 AM</font>
But I am learning why I'm just a mediocre player, I'm not willing to spend the hours to discover all these tricks or read about them in "strategy" threads, and I dont even want to use them in games.
Are there people here who just play without using tricks?
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Berserker, I empathise with this thought, and am one who enjoys best to play without the tricks. The actual exploration and stuff is fun for me. I don't even like other players knowing each others govt type early in the game on chat.

Ming, you mentioned: "Again, unit location is a legitimate feature... it was designed into the game so you could find units that are attached to any specific city in case you are having support problems. Would somebody please explain why this is anymore a cheat than looking at the top 5 city screen, demographic screen, or wonders screen."

I see it differantly even tho agreeing it was built into the game, I would have it only work on known cities. The manuel on one version once said something to the effect that early in the game cities with wonders would be renound in the world and some info about them would travel afar, but still ...
It is speculation but I don't think it was intended in the game for units to give away the location of cities they had not contacted yet. Unless they reasoned that local villagers or whatever had rumers that turned them onto it...but then the city might as well become visable in the black unexplored world too while they are at it.
*It would be nice to see this feature ONLY work on KNOWN cities.

Why is emographic info known before you discover the civ you have the info on!! True you get more on demographics with an embassy, but it seems a bit inconsistant that you can have demographic info on a civ you don't even know exists yet.


I would not have added my 2 cents regarding Eyes if he was not such a name caller of many people he is really in ignorance of. Though it may be ridiculous for me to waste any time with someone who talks like that, he is a good player, and I am sure he has a valuable contribution to make in the civ world, whether you are of Game League, Apolyton, the Zone, the folks who are content with only playing single player or hot seat, or whoever. Maybe I am just naive to think he would bring out his points in a more reasonable non threatening manor. But then maybe it is his priviledge to bring them out however he wants. If that is so then I have no qualms about saying what I think about it for whatever its worth.

[suas333]

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</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Berzerker on 09-30-2000 04:05 AM</font>

Ming, that deal about using unit location to "find" other cities sure sounds like a cheat to me. Its just like clicking on black squares to determine land and sea, but more advantageous since it allows discovering opponents. But I am learning why I'm just a mediocre player, I'm not willing to spend the hours to discover all these tricks or read about them in "strategy" threads, and I dont even want to use them in games.
Are there people here who just play without using tricks?
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While i agree with you that it might be a cheat, The league says its legal so you can't get angry when its used on you during a league game.

Ming, isn't that considered a cheat in most of apolyton?

[rah]

No, the only time that Ming ever thought it was a cheat was when Xin started usuing it and Ming didn't know about it. He assumed MWHC and Xin were doing the peaking at the map with another computer trick. That wasn't the case, hahahahahaha.

In most of the games that we play with Apolyton people, it is not considered a cheat. In fact, I've never heard anyone request that no one does it in a game that i'm in. Probably since the people that we started playing with when MP first came out, started using it quite quickly.

RAH
Sorry, Ming, but I always liked that story, you were so pissed, it was funny. And it was the same game where Xin named all of his cities BOSTON since that was your closest city. I was in tears laughing. The first few times were so much fun.

[Simpson II]

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</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Ming on 09-28-2000 08:12 AM</font>
Again, unit location is a legitimate feature... it was designed into the game so you could find units that are attached to any specific city in case you are having support problems. Would somebody please explain why this is anymore a cheat than looking at the top 5 city screen, demographic screen, or wonders screen.
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ROTFL!! Certainly unit location is a legitimate feature.. However, the field that gives you the closest city to the unit was surely put there so that you could find the unit, not the city!
Game cheats occur when the designers make an oversight, and this is IMHO certainly in that class. I can see the reason for making it legal and even acceptable - an undetectable cheat can't really be regulated against - but I don't think that not getting caught makes a cheat 'legitimate.'
The most damning thing, though, is that it would ruin the game's balance. A builder strategy depends on a momentum player not finding them for a while.. no way will that happen if a player does this. The fog of war is there for a reason!

What has amused me about this thread is the way people have reached the top of the GameLeague. By mastering all the ways of playing Civ and learning the judgement to pick the right method? Nah. Insist on totally unbalanced settings where only one strategy works - 2x2x small map king, 2x1x no huts, whatever. Then practise those settings until you can play them in your sleep.

By the way, EoN, when are you going to beat Pinball in the League? It looks bad for the GameLeague no. 1 if he has been beaten in every game he's played against the no. 2

[Mercantile]

of all the games i have played online, and its not many, i would never leave my cities undefended for very long. How is this strategy, if an explorer can take three or four undefended cities in one turn. I have played enough civ to try and duplicate the reproduciton levels mentioned here, and i come up horrible short. If i struggle at Apolyton, there is no point in my even trying gameleague. Thats a real shame.

[Eyes Of Night]

Actually first game I played pinball he got 4 or 5 cities to my 1. I came back and was slightly ahead and I didn't feel like taking forever to win the game so I made a deal like I usually do. I'd give him this game in agreement that he'd play me double or nothing. I had no ****ing idea the little ***** would get 6 cities to my 1 the next game and took my capital in 3500BC. He is the luckiest mother ****er I have ever seen in my life. He does it in almost every single game. Third game I played him we both got average starts. I ended up kicking the **** out of him, he was nothing. Pinball has to have an incredible start to even stay in the game. Besides, he won't be number 2 for very long because he has games with people he's losing right now.

And to tell you the truth I really don't care anymore. I've been to number 1 so many times it's like a habit and I'm getting really tired of it. I'm wasting my life on here in forums and on a stupid computer game when I can be out getting drunk and getting laid. My life went much better I think when I didn't come on and play this stupid game. This game has gotten very old, I've played it 9 years and I don't really find any challenge in it. It's the only game I've ever really played before and to tell you the truth I really don't like computer games that much. I've already requested Kwang to reset my points to 1000 and to put up a headline that I'm retiring by my own will, not being removed for cheating as everyone will think. It's time for a change. I'm going to say I'm retiring for 6 months, but I'm really hoping I'll have enough discipline to stay off it forever. I'll still play tribe games to assauge my addiction which is why I'm not having him remove me completely. I'm no longer going to reply to this post and hopefully I'll be able to keep myself off the gameleague forums. So squabble amongst yourselves.

[Alexander's Horse]

I just noticed another thing about my save of the game with Eyes - when I click on his cities (playing my side) it doesn't tell me what trade they want?????

WTF is that about? My saves of other games do it, I double checked.

[suas333]

you probably never researched trade yet. Especially since Eyes' games are usually decided in the early years.

[Alexander's Horse]

Oh yeah

[Moker Guy]

ok i know this is kinda old but you want to know the reason why eyes always wants to host? its because he has a modified rules.txt..........dont beleive that crap about his keyboard......and that crap about him having to restart. his rules.txt is modified so there is less disorder for the amount of cities, and less disorder for the lvl at which he is playing. just go check out your rules.txt you will see what i mean. oh and kaak can host because he has the same modifications. the thing about it is that it isnt cheating beacause who ever is playing the game gets the same advantages.

Super Sayen Moker
Leader of the Sayen Tribe

hehe EXPOSED

ps i didnt see the post you wrote about this AH you hit it right on the nose.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Moker Guy (edited October 01, 2000).]</font>

[Matthew]

I don't see what the big deal is about settings. Yes, gameleague does seem to be a league of 2x2x King players. Being #1 there means being the best at those settings only. So what? It's still an accomplishment. You really can't demean the accomplishment unless you can outdo it yourself.There are no best settings. There are just some people who preer some settings, and others who prefer others. I personally prefer Deity, at least 4 players, and either 1x1x or 2x1x, restless tribes, and at least a 50x60 world. But I don't thinkk as others as bad players or bad people just because theydisagree with me on this. I only think of people as being bad if they disagree with me on who should be president, or i they don't think that the Federal Government should spend $200 Billion a year on physics research.

It's unfortunate that one mistake by a great player can bring any victory he gains under suspicion. But such is life, and it is a lesson far better learned here than in real life.

[iadkins]

Thanks Moker!!
Finally I understand what's happening here.
So, the host can modify the Rules.txt, which affects all players. But because the other players DON'T KNOW they may not be taking advantage of it. Their playing decisions may be based on the assumption of std rules; ie keeping more units at home than they need to etc etc...
So, it IS cheating because there is a lack of common knowlegde from the outset of the game!
Yes, EXPOSED indeed....

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*THE DEITY*
#8388924

[iadkins]

Thanks Moker!!
Finally I understand what's happening here.
So, the host can modify the Rules.txt, which affects all players. But because the other players DON'T KNOW they may not be taking advantage of it. Their playing decisions may be based on the assumption of std rules; ie keeping more units at home than they need to etc etc...
So, it IS cheating because there is a lack of common knowlegde from the outset of the game!
Yes, EXPOSED indeed....

------------------
*THE DEITY*
#8388924