No Science Succession ... Sticky Mice in Trouble!

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Re: What is that in Rabbit Years?

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
We have, uh, three cities

And how many did YOU found? In despotism we have to go with the best city sites. 3 cities are better than 7!

And don't feel bad about not using the hut finder... it takes all the fun out of it, IMO. Nice work finding those huts the old fashioned way.

STYOM looking forward to the next go-round...

[-Jrabbit]

Uh, just one, and that by pure luck -- "found" is definitely the operative word.

Future cities: The NONE settler will create another distant outpost (unless brought home by trireme), and we have a settler doing road-grading between Kiev and St Pete as well.

Strongly considered pumping a couple settlers out of Moscow, but decided (against my better judgment, actually) to go ahead with the WoW.

[Scouse Gits]

For my money you made the right decision to keep the HG - I just hope we can actually get it! Great good fortune with trade - may we be so lucky with Monarchy ...

Way to go DaveV....

SG[1]

[-Jrabbit]

Re: Re: What is that in Rabbit Years?

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
"Yes, we've finally hit a critical mass of smilies, such that there is a sufficiency of material to permit some solid basic communications. We Are... The Electronic Egyptians!!" - Jrabbit, on Apolyton communication

Just noticed this in your sig, STOYM.

AFAIK the first time this humble bunny has been so honored... And as one who really digs the whole language-and-lingustics thing (especially the new language of the Web), this is especially sweet.


Thanks.

[DaveV]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Way to go DaveV....

Congratulations before the fact? Well, I have played my usual role as class bully.

-200 We are strong and our reputation is spotless. Thank heavens for small favors. Demographics show us 5th in production (boo!) and 1st in land area (yay!). Rushbuild elephant in Minsk. Empty cities make me nervous (especially with barb boats nearby). Settler who was mining an iron mountain in Greek/American backyard is told to stop. Change production in Kiev from phalanx to elephant. Americans sign cease fire, pay 50 gold for peace treaty. Tribute: Japan 75, Spain 50, Greece 50, India 50.
-175 Iron Mountain built (red face in Kiev). Tribute: Japan 50, Spain 50, America war, Greece 50, India 50. Spanish demonstrate the wonders of Monarchy. We gape with awe and amazement.
-150 Spanish exchange Monarchy for Astronomy, pay 100 gold tribute. Tribute: Japan 25, Americans 50 for peace, Greece 0, India 50. Revolution for upcoming Oedo year.
-125 DaveV is now Czar! Taxes to 70%. Tribute: Japan 50, Spain 100, America war, Greece war, India 50. Hut discovered at (80,62). Alt-Tab to hutfinder, it looks as though my predecessors have already found most of the goodies. With all this cash (1188 gold), it looks like time to go on the offensive. Rush barracks in Kiev and St. Petersbourg.
-100 Tribute: Japan 0, Spain 100, America won't pay for cease fire, Greece won't pay for peace, India 25.
-75 Tribute: Japan 0, Spain war, America won't pay for cease fire, Greece won't pay for peace, India 25. Minsk elephant kills barb legion, is promoted to veteran. Rushbuild elephants in Minsk, Kiev, and St. Petersbourg.
-50 Tribute: Japan 0, Spain won't pay for peace, America won't pay for cease fire, Greece pays 50 for peace, India 25. Chariot kils first of many horsemen approaching Moscow. New, non-vet elephant dies attacking barb legion near Minsk, but the vet finishes him (whew!).
-25 Tribute: Japan war, Spain: war, America won't pay for cease fire, Greece 0, India 0. Moscow chariot kills another barb horse. Hut at (80,62) yields a legion, supported by Minsk. Rushbuild elephants in Kiev, St. Petersbourg.
1 Tribute: Japan gives 50 for cease fire, won't pay for peace, Spain gives 50 for cease fire, won't pay for peace, America won't pay for cease fire, Greece 0, India war. Our pinned-down horseman decides to take 3 Indian units with him. Indians kill him .
20 Tribute: Japan won't pay for peace, Spain: war, Greece: war, India won't talk. Hut at (78,68) yields 50 gold. Rushbuild elephant in Kiev, 3/4 elephant in St. Petersbourg.
40 Aaarrrggghh! Barbs appear near Moscow to threaten the caravan that I've been marching across the wilderness this whole time! Tribute: Japan: 0, Spain: war, Greece: war, India pays 50 for cease fire. Boston captured with the loss of one vet elephant, America refuses to pay for cease fire, I discover that they have an archer stacked under a warrior adjacent to Boston. Ooops, I should have settled for a cease fire. Another vet elephant lost. Moscow is threatened, rushbuild Hanging Gardens for 332 gold so more defenders can be purchased. American archer dies attacking my vet elephant in Boston, warrior kills him, but at least I'll hold the city now. Whew, again! Barbs kill my caravan.
60 Moscow builds HG, rushes a horseman to deal with barbs. Rush 25 shields toward an elephant in Kiev. Tribute: Japan: 0, Spain: 50 for cease fire, Greece: 50 for cease fire, India: war. Chariot moves out of Moscow to kill a barb horse.
80 Barb horse kills my chariot near Moscow. New horseman in Moscow kills barb horse and leader, is promoted to veteran. Hut at (72,66) yields 1 barb legion, 6 barb horses. Tribute: Japan: 0, Spain: 0, America: war, Greece: war, India: 0.
100 Barbs kill my legion. Tribute: Japan: war, Spain: war, America: war, Greece: war, India: 50 for cease fire. Hut at (79,79) yields 50 gold. Moscow elephant kills barb horsemen. Americans have nearly completed Pyramids . American warrior dies attacking my vet legion on a hill.
120 Tribute: Japan: war, Spain: 50 for cease fire, Greece: war, India: war. I kill a warrior and settler that are blocking the approach to Washington. Hut at (85,79) yields Construction. Rushbuild elephant in Kiev. Washington build Pyramids, Indians abandon Pyramids.
140 Tribute: Japan: 50 for cease fire, Spain: war, Greece: 50 for cease fire, India: war. We kill an American warrior outside Washington.

Bold text and formatting edited.

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by DaveV

-125 DaveV is now Czar!

American warrior dies attacking my vet legion on a hill.

He sure deserves it
...since he seems to have been fighting many battles harder than this one

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Monarchy!!!

Now we can go kick some *ss... err... SG's, this wasn't an AC game was it?

[Scouse Gits]

Thanks Dave
An awesome demonstration of the total war approach early in the game.

STYOM - With Science @ 0% you can do anything

Straybow You have the pleasure of controlling Moscow Centre. If you can finish quickly you'll make two old gits happy as we can play our turns on Friday night

---------------------------

SG(2)

[-Jrabbit]

Wow. DaveV lives in a different world than I do. No wonder I spend the early game poor and alone. I am woefully underinformed in the area of consistently demanding tribute from all and sundry.

Sorry to hear that precious Van didn't make it across the plains to Moscow...

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
Wow. DaveV lives in a different world than I do. No wonder I spend the early game poor and alone. I am woefully underinformed in the area of consistently demanding tribute from all and sundry.

You're not alone, though you may be poor . I know I should demand tribute, but I keep forgetting and ending my turn... and then forgetting the next turn as well. Sort of like my use of the oedo tables ("OK, I revolt in 2 turns"... then 4 turns later I remember that thought, and say to myself "OK, in 2 MORE turns I revolt"... and so on... )

I didn't document my tribute demands fully, but I remembered to ask the Greeks, Indians, Japanese and Americans about once every 2 turns. And I gather that if you have significant land forces on the same continent as the AI - particularly, if you outnumber them - they will ALWAYS cough up tribute, if they have 25+ gold.

[Straybow]

Have .sav, will travel

I am partially recovered from the Apolytonian seige of the Aztecs. I'll not be able to finish building canals for Mother Russia in time for SGs' Friday night drinking gaming session.

[-Jrabbit]

Clearly it gives the AI an oppty to change status re peace treaties etc. Does this have any effect on reputation (or anything else)?

[DaveV]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
I am woefully underinformed in the area of consistently demanding tribute from all and sundry.

Tribute is an extremely powerful weapon against the AI (some would say overpowered ). Draining the AIs' treasuries limits their ability to rush units/wonders, bribe cities, or even defend against bribery if that's your cup of tea. And the cash thus raised can be used to build more military, which makes the AIs even more willing to pay protection money. Not very effective against overseas empires, but almost unfairly effective on big contintents. MGE "aggressive" AI only makes it easier, since it's so simple to goad AIs into declaring war so you can conquer them with no reputation hit. And, if you're not ready to fight them yet, they'll pay for a cease fire as soon as they have enough cash.

The only drawback is the tedium of making the rounds every turn to point out how it would be a shame if your goons accidentally broke something in the AI's empire. And, of course, some people have moral misgivings about exploiting the AI.

Demanding tribute has no impact on reputation, as long as your troops don't attack and violate a cease fire/peace treaty. Of course, if the AI cancels the treaty in response to a later extortion demand, that's not your fault...

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
Sorry to hear that precious Van didn't make it across the plains to Moscow...

It was only one turn from delivery, too. You win some, you lose some (the rest get rained out).

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Not to get too far off topic, but tribute is a good reason to stay out of Republic and in Monarchy, in the early game.

Rather than having taxes turned up to 20 or 30% in Republic, you can turn them off in Monarchy, put the slider up in Luxuries by an equivalent margin... then your cities celebrate, collecting trade arrows as a Republic does. You make up for the loss of tax revenue by demanding tribute, plus you have no senate interference in wartime. The only downside I can think of is the lack of WLTPD growth.

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by DaveV

Tribute is an extremely powerful weapon against the AI.

The only drawback is the tedium of making the rounds every turn to point out how it would be a shame if your goons accidentally broke something in the AI's empire.

I tried demanding tribute for the first time yesterday and it worked a treat. And when they declared war I got money for the cease fire and more for the peace treaty.

I was asking for tribute every other round, but DaveV says to ask every round. Do the AI civs react differently if you ask too often, or do they just go on paying whenever they have the money?

RJM at Sleepers