Stella Polaris departs from Apolyton

[Joeno]

And as I said, I had joined that team to work on the code later on, with minor things, not to build the engine from the ground up.

And want to know more I've done? Well, let me even go back from before you joined. I've helped in the early design discussions. I've done testing for older parts of the code. I've written the AI part for the never published GOD. I've written things.

I've never said I was interested in AI. I said I was willing to help out with Single Player development. That involved AI as well, apparently, as I later discovered. I made it clear from the beginning I couldn't code that, and that I could not be involved in discussions about that. And I had no plans? Well, no. It's hard to start on a plan when the main part of the game, the multi player part was not even permanent. And when we started seeing more on that, that SP Development post already wasn't mentioned for me anymore.

Let me ask you then - what have you done in designing the game? I haven't heard anything on that yet, nor seen it.

[Rasbelin]

FP,

I recommend that you ignore this thread as this isn't going anywhere.

Joeno,

[Leland]

In all fairness, one should keep in mind the history of the project... when Rasbeling came aboard, it was Blake's project and the idea was the Blake, with his interest in design and coding, would drive the project whereas Rasbey's job description would be to take care of PR and other mundane tasks so that Blake and others can concentrate on the creative effort. However, later it seems that Blake got bogged down by studies and possibly the swarming of new ideas that didn't fit his vision for the game (I'm speculating based on my own feelings about GGS a few years back), and subsequently left the project, leaving the so called "management" to Rasbey. I think it's unfair to blame him for ruining the project when he was forced to take a job he wasn't qualified to do in the first place (not intending to be rude to anyone, just pointing out the fact that a volunteer project can't function without someone committed to coding/design taking charge).

I've been keeping an eye on the project ever since it moved to Apolyton, and a little bit before that. My impression is that the "management" structure was perhaps a bit top-heavy... all sorts of PR stunts and fancy titles and such created an image that this is a classy, professional project when it was in fact still taking the first baby steps. A lot of people seemed to take it for granted that the mythical "management" would tell them what to do as long as they signed up and jumped through the loops, and when this bubble bursted the people involved probably felt cheated. Okay, perhaps this was a misjudgment on Rasbey's part, to inflate the image of the project instead of keeping both feet on the ground, but I don't think that the disgruntled members of the team can blame him for the lack of content in the project.

But, I guess the really important issue is, what now? Will Stella Polaris rise in another form? The people and ideas still exist, so why not just start a new project from scratch (FreeAC, anyone)? Or import the ideas to some existing projects like Freeciv? Certainly you've at least learned a lesson of how not to run an volunteer open-source project, have you not?

Interestingly, Stella seemed to die exactly at the same point of development as GGS. GGS had UI demo and framework, Stella had the map editor. GGS had a few UML diagrams, so did Stella. The basic design choices were there in GGS, as they were in Stella. Both projects had people who were at least interested to see where things were going. And then, *bang*, full stop. It seems that this is the biggest hurdle of any project, to get the first cheapass product out the door so you can keep adding to it.

Thoughts?

[Joeno]

Alright then, seems like we're not getting anywhere with this, and that someone has already set their mine on leaving the project, without even attempting to let anyone else try. Let me just ask the others who do feel like continuing the project to contact me, or whoever else that thinks like they can run the project better than me (not something that's going to be that hard to do), so that we can at least try to get something done, because I know we can.

[Leland]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
Aaahh... so this is how the project has been run....

The reason for the failure is becoming more clear.

Yup. But can you blame the lack of good management to a bad management? Without Rasbey the project would be just as dead, only less visibly so.

EDIT: Okay, upon reading the few posts above, I guess Rasbey's people skills could use some brushing up. Banning all criticism of the project is a baaad idea in terms of general atmosphere, and that drives potentially good people away. I know I'd much rather be member of a project with positive atmosphere even if it progresses slowly, than tense authoritarian atmosphere with fast progress. Which Stella didn't have anyway.

[Joeno]

Well, there still was some activity, just, apparently, not enough.

[Rasbelin]

Leland,

I'm simply peeved at Joeno who underevaluates my value for the project and all the work I have done. He hasn't even said thank you for anything I have done. What a *****.

[ottok]

Ehkä nyt innostuit hiukan liikaa,"naapuri"(!?)

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Re: Stella Polaris departs from Apolyton

Originally posted by Rasbelin

Dan and Markos, despite you did help much with some publicity and the StP forum, you should understand that I'm a dissatisfied customer and feel ignored by you as you have failed to properly deliver The Column writings in a reasonable time, rather than releasing a redundant text in January that was written in early September. You should have concidered more seriously the offers of help with editing The Column feature. I'm also wondering what happened to the revised edition of the Alt.Civs guide which included StP and would have been useful for PR. And where are the Game Development Teams Civgroups I suggested and did the background work for, 4 months ago? I assume you're too busy creating DG Civgroups and some even more urgent RoN beta tester Civgroup. And Markos, don't come and say I'm rude. If someone is rude, then it's you as you seem to have put very little interest in these small things you have promised to do.

Hi Rasbelin. Remember when I aired my feelings about The Column last year?

If I remember correctly, you used the opportunity to (unprovoked) accuse me of "moaning" and "whining", coupled to a little homily about how great you were in comparison because you were just groovy about the delays, and wasn't Markos such a super-special guy?

Thank you. You've brightened up my day immensely by throwing your toys out of the pram so emphatically.

[Locutus]

Sounds to me like this project can survive just fine, on the condition that some managers are kicked out (or at least forced to take a step back) and some coders are attracted. The former is easy enough to do (maybe even too easy), but the latter is something almost all Alt Civ projects seem to be fail at

If a restart proves impossible, I urge the Stella Polaris people to join one of the existing Alt Civs projects!

[Rasbelin]

Laz,

I have changed my opinion as time has passed and nothing has happen.

[CapTVK]

Originally posted by Locutus
Sounds to me like this project can survive just fine, on the condition that some managers are kicked out (or at least forced to take a step back) and some coders are attracted. The former is easy enough to do (maybe even too easy), but the latter is something almost all Alt Civ projects seem to be fail at

If a restart proves impossible, I urge the Stella Polaris people to join one of the existing Alt Civs projects!

I concur with that, if even a quarter of the creative energy can be funneled into some or more of the existing Civ projects (whether it be Freeciv, Clash, C-evo or even Freecol) this attempt won't be a total bust.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Rasbelin
Go away, Ming...

No...

And yes... it does seem like your projects wounds were totally self inflicted... so remember that before you try to blame them on somebody else...

[Ari Rahikkala]

Originally posted by Locutus
If a restart proves impossible, I urge the Stella Polaris people to join one of the existing Alt Civs projects!

Time to see just how impossible it is.

[Leland]

Originally posted by Rasbelin
I'm simply peeved at Joeno who underevaluates my value for the project and all the work I have done. He hasn't even said thank you for anything I have done. What a *****.

The point is that in my humble opinion when running a project like this, one just can't afford to be peeved at anyone (at least not in public). It's a "the drones need you, they look up to you" kind of deal. Well. Almost. But anyway, in an ideal world people should be able to work out their differences diplomatically.