Apolyton Hall of Fame: August 2002

[Ming]

Originally posted by DarkCloud
In the last year and a half, Civ II has been all but deserted except for MWHC and Succession gamers.

You should really do your homework before making statements like this... PBEM, MP, and the Democracy game forums are still going strong for Civ II. Two new forums had to be added to the Civ II section during that time frame

[Solver]

That's true. It probably is bad that CTP doesn't have a single person. The only other explation other than those you give is that it hasn't been around as long as Civ II and has yet to build up a well known community outside of yourself, WesW, Solver, and perhaps one or two others.

And note that the three persons you mentioned might well be known for other reasons. Locutus is much known as the Apolyton directory manager. WesW is known because he has a hosted site, and some even know of him as a modmaker, but haven't played his mods, yet. I'm probably mostly known as the Interview Chief and the guy who looks at his monitor with a microphone. So give CtP more representation! I guess forcing Ming to play CtP MP for a week could be good .

[Chris 62]

You CTP guys sure have big egos.

How do you fit your heads through doors?

[Solver]

Our asses are even bigger.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by DarkCloud
Locutus- you do have to give the OT credit- they voted in Xin Yu and he NEVER posts there

Yeah, but it struck me that he was elected shortly after his FoA

So, knowing that, could you coordinate with Solver that Harlan's (inevitable) future FoA coincides with a HoF vote?

The reason I post this in the OT is that I know for sure that the vets will get elected, since they post in the OT anyways for the most part. This allows many civesque people to be elected.

Well, as I said, you're overlooking a very large and important group of vets by that - the ones not visiting OT...

However, if I put it in say the Civ II section ,we would end up with very obscure people... much like the OT has sometimes done, but it would be more like 75% since there are less regular posters there. (IN the OT about 100 people visit in a day, in the other fora it's less)

Did you ever try? But regardless, the same would be the case for CtP1 and CtP2: for most non-CtPers names like Dale, hexagonian, Peter Triggs, Martin Gühmann, dutcheese, TP, Celestial_Dawn, Nordicus, skorpion59, etc are rather obscure, while they are some of the giants of the CtP series... The the reverse is also the case, see my next paragraph.

Many of those OTers are known outside the OT

Actually, AH made a post in CtP2 General not too long ago and people wondered who he was... And I think it's safe to say AH is one of the most famous of the OTers...

Apolyton is too big, it's impossible for anyone to know everyone, that's exactly what makes features such as FoA and HoF so interesting, assuming they are executed right...

[/quote]In the last year and a half, Civ II has been all but deserted except for MWHC and Succession gamers.[/quote]
What Ming said - and the same goes for CtP1 and SMAC.

That's true. It probably is bad that CTP doesn't have a single person. The only other explation other than those you give is that it hasn't been around as long as Civ II and has yet to build up a well known community outside of yourself, WesW, Solver, and perhaps one or two others.

I doubt that. Apolyton already had a CtP1 section on day 1. If you ask me, the main reason is that CtPers have never been big fans of OT, some are even quite strongly opposed to having an OT at all...

Besides, thanks to the mods CtP1 and CtP2 both have an almost infinite replayability value, so we've never grown tired of it, as so many Civ2ers have

Thus, in the future, I think:
CTP2, Civ III and OT will ahve the poll, if that is all right?

I really think CtP1, Civ2, SMAC and Alt Civ should get get their own thread as well. If you don't want people to vote there, at least explain a bit about the HoF and tell them to go to the Apolyton forum for voting. The announcements have unfortunately been 'abused' a bit too much lately (a while ago I got complaints from CtP2ers who were extremely excited about the new patch the announcement talked about, until they found out it was a Civ3 patch ), so I suspect that the announcements are not being read as much as they used to anymore, at least not in the CtP forums (although I admit I have no evidence to back that up). A regular forum thread would work infinitely better... And if your connection is really that big a deal (right If that's really a big deal, how the hell did you ever become an emperor? ), I would be more than happy to post the duplicate/referral threads for you...

they may have been released but the posting was abysmal. I KNOW. I visit every 2 months or so and find maybe 3 new threads

Because people post less, it doesn't mean they're not there. Sure, not all projects are equally active, but Clash, FreeCiv and Candle'Bre are alive and well (and EU and Classic Games aren't doing too bad either)... Alt Civ forums due to their nature rely a lot on reusing old threads, and posting rate is slow as people are too busy with programming and stuff to post a lot. But a quick count showed at least 5 new threads for Candle'Bre in the last 2 weeks (could well be more but I stopped counting at 5) and all but 1 of the threads on the first page in the FreeCiv forum were started in the last 2 months. Sure, the Alt Civ forum itself isn't exactly the OT but the Alt Civ section has a total of 10 forums, some of which are quite active, with a large usergroup (no you don't have to post a thread in *all* those 10 forums)...

It was true in the Civ III section... actually it was more like 1% or less

Well, like you said, Civ3ers are mostly n00bes, they behave very differently from the vets in the CtP1/2 sections and probably from the Alt Civers and SMACers as well...

I never said they couldn't, I just said taht it was likely they wouldn't know people who belonged in the hall since they weren't around here as much.

Like I said, I think they do, at least many of the ones in the CtP1 and CtP2 forums. For SMAC, Civ2 and Alt Civ it's a little harder to judge but you won't know it until you try it out...

I think that's pretty obvious. If you don't know someone, yo uwon't vote for them.

The thing is that people *do* know them. If someone was really important, he will still be known today. Perhaps not by everyone, but the system of giving older posters more points should usually ensure that things work out just fine...

every time I post the hall of fame, I get flamed by people

Well, welcome to the world!
Now you know how Markos (or Firaxis, or Activision, or Solver or Ming or me or ...) feels everytime he adds new features to the site/forums. But does it stop him (or anyone else) from it? Whatever you do, some people will always complain/flame/whatever, you should take the valuable feedback at heart, and ignore the flames.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!

If someone truly pushes me, I might put another one in Scenario League, and perhaps The Spanish Civ II site...

*push* *push*

But then we'll probably run into the "OT syndrome" as you define it... people voting for their friends.

You will get that anywhere. So if just you post everywhere, it should more or less balance everything out

How does my proposal sound.

Still missing SMAC, Civ2, CtP1, Alt Civ Those are all still active. At least those *sections* are, individual forums can differ: CtP1 General may seem rather dead (in fact, there are more lurkers than posters, so the casual observer can easily be fooled), but CtP1-MP is the most active forum on the boards. It should be sufficient to post in 1 forum per section: one 1 Civ3-General, 1 in Civ2-General, 1 in CtP2-General, etc, one in all the General forums (except MoO and RoN) plus one in Alt-Civ itself, to represent all 10 Alt-Civ forums. When you post in one of the sections, people from the other forums (including MP) in that section will probably find it soon enough - worked for the Apolytoner of the Season Award, it should work again for the Hall of Fame. The only sections for which more than one forum needs a thread would of course be Miscellaneous (Apolyton + OT) - and perhaps Hosted Sites.

What I'm trying to say is that you are going to have clique problems anywhere I place this (and until now, I have tried to circumvent these problems by placing the hall in the place with the most still-active vets; it hasn't worked perfectly, but I dread what may happen if I change its position), and I doubt that Stefan Hartel, Harlan, OmniGod, et. al. can overcome the cliques sad as it may be.

Like I said, the best way to solve the clique forum is to post *everywhere*, that way things will cancel each other out. OT is a clique just as much as the rest of the site, as the current HoF memberlist proves...


Chris,
Heh, considering all the crap we had to put up with until Civ3 was released (thank god the trolls moved on! *thouches wood*), a little compensation is not entirely out of place

Solver,
Actually, I think I myself am best known by most people from my brief but powerful Civ3-appearance, not for anything else (although the staff membership does help, I'm sure).
There are many reasons why WesW has at least some fame among the rest of Apolyton (but not enough to get any points in the HoF, so he's not all *that* famous). The FoA, the website, his Civ3 work, his OT posting of the past, his famous Ming quote, it's all those things put together.
You're forgetting one important CtPer though: Paul. His fame outside the CtP section is also entirely because of OT and Civ2 though, I doubt many know he's also an avid CtP1/2 modmaker and CtP1 MPer.
But you're right, the same goes for Harlan and Immortal Wombat and other CtP1/2ers: if they are known outside the CtP community, it's not because of their CtP work, as important as it may be...

[Locutus]

(dammit, why won't the stupid thing let me edit? Oh well, you'll simply have to live with the typos...)

[Solver]

Paul is not primarily a CtP'er, like us.

[Locutus]

Hmm, Apolyton Pack for CtP1, MedMod for CtP1, MedMod for CtP2, ModSwapper, ModSwitcher, CtP1-MP, CtP1-OCC - I'd say he's an important CtPer (I'm 100% certain I left out a thing or two, my apologies to Paul for forgetting )

[Solver]

Yeah, but same lists for other games .

[Locutus]

AFAIK only Civ2, but that was a while ago After that, AFAIK just CtP and OT (here on Apolyton anyway)...
(one of the things I forgot was the graphics for CD's mod BTW )

[DarkCloud]

You should really do your homework before making statements like this... PBEM, MP, and the Democracy game forums are still going strong for Civ II. Two new forums had to be added to the Civ II section during that time frame

PBEM= MWHC's succession games.

I was referring to the GENERAL section, not the MP section or demo game section... and the Demo game section had a lapse recently, if you remmber (I am a member of all the demo games and check in from time to time.)

The Civ II one now has a multi-site demogame running... Which was goig strong at last memory ,but I was referring to the General section; and before the demogames, the section was even deader.

Actually, AH made a post in CtP2 General not too long ago and people wondered who he was... And I think it's safe to say AH is one of the most famous of the OTers...

AH was WELL known in the Civ II and III idea sections a eraly ago as Dec 2000... And he has been consistently posting there until recently (I think) but I remember taht in late 2000 everyone knew him.

He posted A LOT on topic. His threads were spammy but contained many good ideas.

If you ask me, the main reason is that CtPers have never been big fans of OT, some are even quite strongly opposed to having an OT at all...

That's because OTers are Civvers, not CTPers, they hate CTP with the same passion I hate Civ III.

Well, like you said, Civ3ers are mostly n00bes, they behave very differently from the vets in the CtP1/2 sections and probably from the Alt Civers and SMACers as well...

I never thought about that!

This makes sense.

CTP I and CTP II both deserve polls.

You will get that anywhere. So if just you post everywhere, it should more or less balance everything out

That is the hope

Okay. Hopefully this is more acceptable (coupled with an announcement from Markos, hopefully) well, you've talked me into this...

Civ III- General
CTP I- MP
CTP II- General
OT

-
and as trials...
SCEN LEAGUE
SPANISH SITE

if certain sections prove 'too' cliquish, this will be their only appearance, but I think despite what happens, I'll leave it in the 4 listed above (unless in CTP I there is a lack of interest)

At least it'll help my post count

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Chris 62
You CTP guys sure have big egos.

I think their problem is that the Nimaders don't constantly make fun of them anymore.

[phoenixcager]

Originally posted by Solver
Paul is not primarily a CtP'er, like us.

...but he is more of an active member of the ctp-PBEM community than many who are 'primarily CTP'ers".

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
I think their problem is that the Nimaders don't constantly make fun of them anymore.

Please. Mock us more.

[Solver]

Hey, the CtPer force is up here! Let's show them off-topicers .