Turns of ADB001 - Aldeberan MP Scenario

[johndmuller]

Turn 2301 to Smack / Outlaws

Should I have seen anything unusual, cause I didn't - even when looking at the tech tree (although I didn't look too hard - thought there were going to be new names, but didn't see them in there) - I'll poke arond more thoroughly tomorrow.

I only copied all those .pcx files into the Sid M's.. directory.

I copied the game into a regular folder in the "saves" subdirectory in the same way I would a regular game. Started to open it as you said via the "Scenarios", but it was looking for a .sc file I think, so I just opened it like a regular MP game. I'm ready to go to sleep, so I won't be doing any more experiments until then.

Do you in fact really need to put the .sav file in with the alpha.txt file and the others from your scenario download?

I guess I'll just assume that I wasn't supposed to see any dramatic differences yet.

[Avenoct]

I forced the game back into Aldebaran, but I believe you played on Chiron JohnD... What I can't figure out is which of these is true:

1. You were sent a Chiron save game (ie, Arima saved it as vanilla Smac somehow)?

2. The game indeed does need to be opened in the special Scenario-folder for Aldeb?

3. Some of us are playing as .SC and some as .SAV?

I do know that you were playing Vanilla Smac, because you indeed should have seen unusual techs. When you start up a turn, probably the best thing to do is press F2 and if it Looks at all foreign, it's Aldebaran, so everything's fine.

I think it's best JohnD if you find a way to load and play your turn as Aldebaran before I take my turn. I can force things back into Aldebaran (by playing with Aldebaran installed), but I'm not sure what reprocussions a saved game from two planets will have!

Also, I'll email Arima to see if Arima experienced Smac or Aldeb. It's like playing Telephone...somewhere someone misspoke.

-Smack

[johndmuller]

I've tried opening the file a variety of ways and still no joy.

The file I received is a .SAV file. If I tell it I want to play a Scenario, or a multiplayer Scenario, it seems to expect a .SC file - that is, the only files it shows in the various directories have a .SC. That seems reasonable so far, as the .SC files have the various victory conditions, etc., in them.

When I copied the .sav file into the directory with the Aldeb stuff in it, it made no difference. The game still came up with what looks to me like regular SMAC, with the new faction names but otherwise no obvious differences.

There may be a way of navigating the menu choices at the beginning that I didn't try, so if someone who has successfully opened the game would replay their menu selections and pass them on, I'd be happy to follow that script and see what happens.

[Avenoct]

I'm tracking this down via email. We'll send a shuttle to get you off Chiron before the PB's fall.

-Smack

[Scipio Centaurus]

Could everyone reload and enter their incoming game SAV file (you all should be able to 'load' the SAV files just like any other MP game, BTW). Once into the game turn, see if the new factions' descriptions appear in the datalinks. Also peek into the SE settings - you should see 'Propaganda' and some other new SE options. Also take a look at the F2 screen to see if there are new techs available. Once we find out where the game reverted back to Chiron we can figure out what happened (hopefully). I know I played on Aldebaran because I did have the new SE options and tech. Also the new factions' help text was online. But maybe as the first player, I needed to move the TXT files into the dafault directory prior to saving - I did not do that. In that case, the Planetlovers would be the first player to notice the reversion to Chiron. How about it Qantaga?

- Scipio

[Arima]

I was playing under Albaderan, but I loaded the game under Albederan (it is in a seperate folder for me). I just loaded it under SMAC, and it was had Biogenetics as the first tech, which would be impossible.

I would guess that you would physically need to have Aldeberan installed in order to play.

[Avenoct]

Test I ran which I'd like someone else to verify:

1. Download 'Foothold' scenario (Aldeb in a scenario form)
2. Start SMAC vanilla version.
3. Start MP scenario-Foothold (making sure to reload non-AI factions for each MP player...but this doesn't matter for the test)
4. Made sure I chose at least 2 factions to be humans
5. Started the game, played turn 1 and saved as a regular game in the same folder. Everything appeared Aldebaran.
6. Loaded the next turn, played, and saved in another folder (just to check)
7. Loaded the next turn, played, verifying that it doesn't matter where the game was saved or loaded...its always Aldebaran.

Notes: make sure to play the turn all the way through 'till you get the prompt for the next players turn automatically.

If someone verifies this, I have no idea how we got Chironized. If it doesn't work, there's a platform or version difference in how SMAC plays with scenarios. Basically I'm saying that if I play the turns all the way through, I can't cause this error. Can you?

-Smack

Here's the Foothold scenario if any want to give it a go.

[Scipio Centaurus]

Originally posted by Arima
I was playing under Albaderan, but I loaded the game under Albederan (it is in a seperate folder for me). I just loaded it under SMAC, and it was had Biogenetics as the first tech, which would be impossible. I would guess that you would physically need to have Aldeberan installed in order to play.

So, you took the SAV file you received from Qantaga, loaded it and saw Biogentics - a Chiron tech? That means the file was already messed up when you got it. Nothing you could do about it.

Now we need to confirm if Qantaga's incoming SAV file also opens as regular SMAC. If so, then I'm the goat.

- Scipio

Smack, is the Biogentics tech in Aldebaran?

[Avenoct]

No biogenetics in Aldebaran. There are a few techs with at least the same name, but they generally appear in the mid to late game.

[Arima]

Originally posted by Scipio Centaurus


So, you took the SAV file you received from Qantaga, loaded it and saw Biogentics - a Chiron tech? That means the file was already messed up when you got it. Nothing you could do about it.

Now we need to confirm if Qantaga's incoming SAV file also opens as regular SMAC. If so, then I'm the goat.

Yeah. So, just for clarification
Loading file into Aldeberan Engine => Aldeberan Techs
Loading file into vanilla SMAC => SMAC Techs

I loaded it as MP Game, though. Would that influence it?

[Scipio Centaurus]

OK. I downloaded the foothold scenario and dumped every file into a folder called Foothold under my SMAC scenario folder. I made sure a plain vanilla alpha.txt file was in the default game directory. The foothold alpha.txt file was in the Foothold scenario folder.

I then fired up a game using the following menu selections:

ALPHA CENTAURI
-> MULTIPLAYER (Selected Hotseat/PBEM service option)
. -> MULTIPLAYER SCENARIO (selected Welcomest.SC)
. . -> TRANSCEND (selected Planetlovers, Syndicate & Nauticon as human factions)

Game started with MP login screen for Planetlovers. I played the Planetlovers turn and checked the SE screen. It was Aldebaran SE. I hit TURN COMPLETE and saved the Planetlovers turn as test1.sav

I restarted SMAC (same alpha.txt setup). I used the following menu options:

ALPHA CENTAURI
-> MULTIPLAYER (Selected Hotseat/PBEM service option)
. -> LOAD MULTIPLAYER GAME (selected test1.sav)

The game started with the login screen for the Syndicate. I played the Syndicate turn and checked the SE screen. It was Aldebaran again. Hit TURN COMPLETE and saved as test2.sav

Repeated for the Nauticons and got Aldebaran again. I'm going to remove the Aldebaran alpha.tx file from the SMAC game directory entirely and try the same test again. I want to verify that Aldebaran comes in even w/o the modified alpha.txt file

I'll check back in later...

[Scipio Centaurus]

That's it! I removed the alpha.txt from the Foothold scenario folder and retarted the scenario - vanilla alpha.txt in the default directory - and the game came up as regular SMAC - not Aldebaran. So it looks like everyone must have the moded alpha.txt 'somewhere' in their game directory structure. Is it using the alpha.txt in the same folder as the SC file and/or SAV file in preference to the one in the default directory? Looks like it.

JohnDMuller? Did you have the aldebaran alpha.txt file in the same folder as your SAV file when you played the turn?

Hang on. I want to make sure that the same thing happens to a load from a SAV as a load from a SC file.

Back shortly...

- Scipio

[Scipio Centaurus]

OK. I put the Aldebaran alpha.txt file back in the Foothold scenario folder and started the scenario again, with the same human factions. I played the Planetlovers turn and it was Aldebaran rules. I saved the turn and exited.

I then removed the Aldebaran alpha.txt file from the Foothold scenario folder. I loaded the first turn SAV file and it loaded up with regular SMAC rules. So it looks like it is using the alpha.txt in the same folder as the SAV or SC file in preference to the alpha.txt in the default directory.

Strange... that seems to contradict my experience when desiging the Waterworld scenario several months back. That was a SMAX scenario though. Anyway, there we have it.

JohnDMuller try your turn again with the Aldebaran alpha.txt file (and all the other Aldbaran TXT files) in the same folder as the turn SAV file.

- Scipio

[Scipio Centaurus]

Ahhh.. I scanned back through the thread and I see that you already tried my previous idea John, so I'm guessing that someone prior to you loaded the turn under regular SMAC and saved it off that way.

Smack do you think that we can 'uncorrupt' the game by forcing a later SAV open under Aldebaran rules? Or would it just be better to simply start over, now that we have a better idea of what's going on.

BTW, it looks like you had it right with your original install instructions. Sorry I mislead everyone.

- Scipio

[johndmuller]

JohnDMuller try your turn again with the Aldebaran alpha.txt file (and all the other Aldbaran TXT files) in the same folder as the turn SAV file.
-Smack

That was one of the variations I tried earlier, with the .sav file in a subdirectory (of the "scenarios" subdir.) called "aldebsmp" (with all the .txt files in that directory also) in which arrangement it didn't work.

When you guys are talking about using .sc files, does that work at any time other than the initial creation of the game?

Which of you are using Macs and which are using intel style PC's?

Are you all satisfied that everyone before me experienced Aldebaron and not vanilla smac?

When you talk of full installs and aldebaron engines, do you mean more than the existence of the aldebaron .txt files in the Sid Meiers AC root directory? (and probably also the graphics files)? It looks like there are only 7 non-unique files in the aldeb download; it wouldn't be a horrendous deal to switch them back and forth if necessary, but it would be a bit of a PIA and might have inadvertent side effects on some other games as I would probably forget to do it sometime. In other words, a more elegant solution would be preferred.

It may matter exactly what the specific path to the aledbaron .txt files was in the original creation of the game, it may try to find the same path on subsequent machines and either use the proper files or not depending on whether or not it finds them.

More later, but let me know some of these answers if you know them.

(I'll probably try out the file thing unless someone tells me I'll really be sorry.)

J