Who would you join?

[waab]

Hmm we have a maniac (sp?) here. But you would get the pleasure when your are making a ground asualt for the glourius Hive, and crushing Lai...

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by waab
Hmm we have a maniac (sp?) here. But you would get the pleasure when your are making a ground asualt for the glourius Hive, and crushing Lai...

Yes, I especially enjoy it when theyre down to the last base, and they begin pleading for mercy, but I decline their offer and crush them as a service to humanity. Especially Yang.

[waab]

Yes I like to kill Yang myself, when I aren't him myself. But actuly Yang is the only wothe opponent (by AI standard).

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by waab
Yes I like to kill Yang myself, when I aren't him myself. But actuly Yang is the only wothe opponent (by AI standard).

Yang (unless he begins taking over the world) is usually very weak along with all of the other factions.

[waab]

Ohh but often he is just doing that, taking over the world...

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by waab
Ohh but often he is just doing that, taking over the world...

Right. You usually have to stop him very quickly if you are to survive. He takes over waay too fast.

[Jethro83]

Indeed, the Hive is incredibly weak at the beginning. His -1 Economy really hurts at that point. But when Yang's territory expands, and he starts launching orbital power transmitters, even he can still get energy in at a rate nearly comparable to Morgan. This is especially true when some bases are stockpiling energy as well. My favourite combination of social engineering choices for the Hive are:
- Police State: Hive's agenda. Helps increase support and police rating.
- Green: Deals with inefficiency. Since the Hive already have +1 industry and +1 growth, Planned really isn't needed with this faction. Also good to be in good graces with Dierdre, since the Gaians do build up a huge military (mostly mind worms, but they still make her a powerful ally)
- Knowledge: A further boost to efficiency. A technologically advanced Hive is a very dangerous enemy. It is also good to be in Zakharov's good graces to make for more profitable tech trading.
- Eudaimonic: Further increase to Industry. Economy penalty neutralised with this choice. Morale penalty hardly hurts, as increased industry (from this choice and Hive's innate bonuses) and support (from Police State) mean more units can be sent onto the field at a reduced cost.

I've also found the Believers to have a hard time surviving the beginning. Their -1 Planet rating really hurts their combat effectiveness against the early mind worm onslaught. Their -2 Research and inability to research for the first few years also hurts badly. However, once you somehow get Planetary Networks, you can then forget about your own research and probe the hell out of the other factions (mainly draining Morgan's energy reserves, and stealing Zakharov's research data). My favourite Believers combo is:

- Fundamentalist: Believer's agenda. Increases combat effectiveness of units, as well as effectiveness of probe teams (the most important unit the Believers could have)
- Free Market: Mind control probe actions are the easiest way of taking bases. But they cost quite a bit. Negative police rating means nothing when you have punishment spheres. The negative research from them also means nothing since the Believers do best to probe more advanced factions for technology.
- Power: Yet another increase in combat effectiveness of your units, which you'll damn well need with all the wars you'll be fighting. Negative Industry isn't much of a problem when you have no compunctions against building genejack factories after having built punishment spheres, not to mention the secret project that nullifies negative effects of Power.
- Thought Control: Yet another bonus to probe teams. Support penalty is negated by the power choice, and can later be negated by a secret project.

The biggest warmongers of the game are also the late bloomers when played correctly.

[Nubclear]

The biggest warmongers of the game are also the late bloomers when played correctly.

Very true. That's why its very important to eliminate them very early on.

[waab]

LordAzreal why bother with inefficiency if you are Yang? He is immun to efficiency. I am going planned, because it is rather nice to have + 2 indy and +3 growth (with Childrens chrech +5 growth (comparing to green -1/+1 growth)). And if University is dead and you aren't fighting any war, go wealth, thats give you +3 indy and -1 econmy.

[Jethro83]

Good point there Waab. I guess I'm thinking too far back to the days before the game was patched. Although the number of bases begins to increase drone activity when they reach a certain number, and with unfettered population growth, with soil enrichers in the surrounding terrain and sky hydroponics labs, even with non-lethal methods, police units will start to be overwhelmed. Having a higher efficiency helps stall this until the transcend specialist is available to help out with psych.

And late game, I find all the industrial and economic bonuses I need with the Eudaimonic future society model. Though I guess I could establish a new combo of:

- Police State
- Planned
- Power
- Eudaimonic

This way, industry won't suffer too much from the power (and not at all when the Cloning Vats are built), and neither will morale, since Power will nullify Eudaimonia's penalty.

If I ran wealth, morale would be way too low, even for an industrial powerhouse like the Hive, unless I ran Cybernetic (which isn't a good idea if you don't have the Network Backbone, and the efficiency/research/planet bonuses aren't great enough to be realised without being reinforced with Green and Knowledge) or Thought Control (when support rating will take a beating without the Cloning Vats. Besides, with Police State, and the Ascetic Virtues, the police rating will already be sufficient without Thought Control).

However, earlier on, it helps to have knowledge so you can get to the point where Eudaimonia is available. And it helps to be green until all the xenonfungus within your boundaries is cleared away. That way, dealing with mind worms is a lot easier (and will sometimes allow you to capture them)

[Panzer]

Yang and Eudaimonia? Sounds almost paradoxal.....

[Maniac]

I'm wondering, how do you guys see the Eudaimonic choice? That Aristotle quote is a bit vague.

[waab]

Originally posted by M@ni@c
I'm wondering, how do you guys see the Eudaimonic choice? That Aristotle quote is a bit vague.

Actuly paradise on earth...but I don't remeber the qoute.

[Maniac]

Well, that's what I call vague! Who can disagree with paradise? Of course the definition of it may vary depending if Yang or Lal is using the SE choice.

[Adalbertus]

Indeed, the Hive is incredibly weak at the beginning.

Scientifically, yes. But as soon as you have Centauri Ecology (which is the first technology I research, except when playing Gaians), the first strengths come into play: You can almost immediately switch to PS (as soon as you have 40 EC), and support twice as many units as the other factions and combat unhappiness. And especially in the early game, once you've built and garrisoned a base, you can hold it against most attackers due to the free Perimeter Defense.
It might be hard, however, playing double-blind research when you don't switch to the "Explore" branch. Each day before formers is hard for the Hive. After that, it's ready to boom.

P. S.: when running PS/Green, the efficiency bonus from Green is wasted. Running PS/Planned gives bonus without penalty for the Hive, which is the major strength of the faction.