Who would you join?

[EnsRegis]

I'm really surprised by all the animosity towards Miriam. I personally dislike her, even though I am a religious man myself. There is a difference between being religous and being unscientific. There can be and are relgious scientists, and I don't really appreciate the view in the game that religon fears science (I like the quote about "The righteous need not cower...")

For example, I love computers and other products of advanced technology. All religion has to say is to be ethical--for example, no human cloning, at least until you're sure that you won't make terrible mistakes. (Disclaimer: The one exception is evolution, which I don't even want to get into, so please don't bring it up) But computer technologies, manufacturing techniques, artificial intelligence, etc, is all well and good, and would be persued all the more because there is less of a focus on unethical (retroviral engineering comes to mind) research and so on.

The image that Miriam gets in the game (which is all I'm basing this on, having never read the books) is that of a cowering leader trying to hide from progress, which is not the way most religous people are. Most of the people I know at church are accepting of and/or excited by new technology, provided that it does not exceed the limits of ethical (biblical) behavior. The game does a terrible job of portraying the balanced viewpoint.

Of course, the alternative is to assume that the other factions are balanced in all their views except the one that they're known for (say for example, some of the Morganites, though probably not Morgan himself, practice religion). That's why I would vote for the Morganites or the Peacekeepers. Freedom rules. Get the government out of the private citizen's life as much as possible.

Got to go now.

[Jac de Molay]

Good points regis. But it seems miriam does frame the progress of Smac's technologies through ethical concerns. Self-aware machines comes to mind. I would agree that the research hit she takes is a bit much, considering what you said

Dave

[GeneralTacticus]

Originally posted by EnsRegis
I'm really surprised by all the animosity towards Miriam. I personally dislike her, even though I am a religious man myself. There is a difference between being religous and being unscientific. There can be and are relgious scientists, and I don't really appreciate the view in the game that religon fears science (I like the quote about "The righteous need not cower...")

You're right, there is a difference between being religious and unscientific, but absolute fundies like Miriam tend to fear science because it comes up with things that contradict their doctrines. Look at Galileo and Darwin for examples of this.

For example, I love computers and other products of advanced technology. All religion has to say is to be ethical--for example, no human cloning, at least until you're sure that you won't make terrible mistakes. (Disclaimer: The one exception is evolution, which I don't even want to get into, so please don't bring it up) But computer technologies, manufacturing techniques, artificial intelligence, etc, is all well and good, and would be persued all the more because there is less of a focus on unethical (retroviral engineering comes to mind) research and so on.

Just try to think the way the Believers are portrayed as thinking for a moment. They want everyone to believe in the same Bible; so no freedom of belief. They want everyone to believe that said Bible is literally true; anything that goes against that has to go. And of course any science that contradicts their morals also has to go. Doesn't exactly leave much room for progress.

The image that Miriam gets in the game (which is all I'm basing this on, having never read the books) is that of a cowering leader trying to hide from progress, which is not the way most religous people are. Most of the people I know at church are accepting of and/or excited by new technology, provided that it does not exceed the limits of ethical (biblical) behavior. The game does a terrible job of portraying the balanced viewpoint.

Most religious people aren't fundies. Miriam is.

[dunk]

Originally posted by waab


Morgon most be the worst choice:
We have just raped mother earth, now let us rape our father. That is Morgan.

Oh, I see.

[dunk]

Originally posted by Lazerus
However i'd still join the Hive even as a worker, since every1 knows the hive will conquer planet

Scary.

[Frankychan]

Originally posted by LordAzreal
EVERYBODY is more rational than the Miriam and her minions in terms of not just scientific achievement, but EVERYTHING. That's why those fearing artificial change in the human genepool end up joining the Believers in the long run. Why they are so scared of becoming something more than they currently are, I don't know.

This is one reason why I don't understand why the U.S. govt restricts research into stem stell research. This scientific breakthrough has been proven to save lives and I don't understand how our elected representatives would deny us this valuable key to fighting genetic diseases.

The only difference to how I run the Hive, and the true to Yang's doctrine model is that I choose Eudaimonia over Thought Control. I can see no thorns in Yang's side with a true to the faction Hive, since the only penalty of thought control is support (which is nullified by the Cloning Vats). I could also use that extra morale from Power instead of nullifying it with Eudaimonia to wage war with greater success.

Hmmm, I never tried implementing Eudaimonia as a future SC choice. I usually pick Thought Control or Cybernetic (?)

As for Dierdre, I'm guessing her agenda would be Democratic, Green, Knowledge and Eudaimonia. With penalties in Morale (innate, as well as extra from Eudaimonia), Police (also innate), Support (from Democratic), Probe (from Knowledge). Quite difficult to wage war, as the only units you can get with clean reactors totally suck due to the low morale. Worms are Dierdre's best weapon, but they will cost quite a bit to support. And unless they can build the Hunter Seeker Algorithm, they are going to be fodder for enemy probe teams, and will be hard pressed keeping their technology out of enemy hands. Not only that, but actions from friendly probes will be less successful and more expensive, making mind control base subversion no good an alternative.

I agree with you on this. Deidre seems like the kind of gal that likes for things to go the "way of the people", but so long as they are parallel with her own ideals. I find her one of the hardest opponents to deal with late in the game because I tend to ignore her (thinking she's weak) and deal with the more immediate threats.....Santiago, Miriam, Lal.

I've had the same problem. I've found the best way for me is to go Fundamentalist and use the superior probes to procure research data and subvert bases with mind control (which Morgan can easily pay for). When they send troops to retaliate, mind control them, and dismantle them to get a facility built. Even then I have trouble.

IMHO Morgan is a powermonger who has huge trouble holding the supreme executive power he expects, as the decadence of his people (innate negative support value) and the ruthlessly exploited and p-offed drones (negative police from Free Market) undermine his authority very easily.

A Religious Capitalist? That sounds rather unique! I never tried implementing Fundamentalism for the simple fact that I wholeheartedly disagree with it. I agree with you that Morgan is a powermonger and I believe that he is worse that Yang for the simple fact that he tries to exploit EVERYONE so long as he gets the Lion's Share of the wealth.

[Jethro83]

Originally posted by frankychan
This is one reason why I don't understand why the U.S. govt restricts research into stem stell research. This scientific breakthrough has been proven to save lives and I don't understand how our elected representatives would deny us this valuable key to fighting genetic diseases.

Indeed. Even here in Australia, the same sort of problem exists.

Hmmm, I never tried implementing Eudaimonia as a future SC choice. I usually pick Thought Control or Cybernetic (?)

The benefit of a Hive player picking Eudaimonia is that it nullifies the innate economic penalties of the Hive. Once Yang has a Eudaimonic society with Power nullifying the morale penalty (and the Cloning vats nullifying Power's Industrial penalty), there's just no negatives left to cover. Only many positives.

I agree with you on this. Deidre seems like the kind of gal that likes for things to go the "way of the people", but so long as they are parallel with her own ideals. I find her one of the hardest opponents to deal with late in the game because I tend to ignore her (thinking she's weak) and deal with the more immediate threats.....Santiago, Miriam, Lal.

I guess with all the forests I see her plant, the mineral production will pay for the mind worm hordes she unleashes upon unsuspecting enemies. Having learnt the painful lesson taught from treating her leniently, I make it a top priority to get rid of her quickly (that, and the fact that I somehow get the satisfaction of hearing "I submit!" come from that pretty face). Especially if they're my neighbour (though I wipe out my closest neighbour early regardless of who they are. Can't have them choke up my expansion now can we?)

A Religious Capitalist? That sounds rather unique!

Why the hell not? Religion is still influential amongst the masses, therefore leaving plenty of room for them to sell out at colossal proportions. IIRC, a lot of religions are massively selling out already.

And since religious real estate holdings are tax exempt, its the perfect scam to cheat taxation (probably the main reason cults are formed).

I never tried implementing Fundamentalism for the simple fact that I wholeheartedly disagree with it.

I also disagree with Fundamentalism. Still, its good to try out every social engineering option. And with some factions, it is the option that is the strongest.

I agree with you that Morgan is a powermonger and I believe that he is worse that Yang for the simple fact that he tries to exploit EVERYONE so long as he gets the Lion's Share of the wealth.

Exactly why I get a whole heap of satisfaction draining his energy reserves with my probe teams, or simply wiping him off the face of Planet.

[Gnool]

I'd go with Deidre or Zakohrov (sp?), because they're gnarly.
Morgan is a capitalist and therefore dumb
Miriam - bahh as if you would
Santiago - I'm a woose & wouldn't want to kill things
Lal - "Pusilanimous Wimp" buahah that's pretty funny
Yang - Nah I'd get all oppressed

[Mr. President]

Chill out guys, it's just a game.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by waab

ehh sorry didn't understand what you mean really...

Sorry, it's a bit obscure now that I have noticed that you are from Sweden. It's what I imagine that Morgan or a right-wing radio talk-show host would replay to your post.

Tree-hugger = a derogatory slang term for an environmentalist

Cry me a river = a sarcastic reply to an overly emotional statement

[Sikander]

Originally posted by dunk

Scary.

Actually I think he's just scared. Rather than dying like a man defending himself from slavery, he'd rather be hung like a dog at the whims of his new masters, albeit hopefully buying himself a little time at the cost of his dignity. It's quite a common viewpoint actually, and one which is taken full advantage of by the Stalin's of the world.

[Lucidor]

Peacekeepers. I find the next thing, the University, a bit too unsettling. Offcourse, my Star Trek fascination would want me to join The Consciousness if I could... I'd love to be a Borg just for once...

[Alinestra Covelia]

I also believe that Yang probably gets bad press. After having lived in China for a year, I know for a fact that the Beijing government does. If Yang (or, more accurately, Sheng) can bring about a faction that works similarly to the current Chinese state, then I'd be happy with that.

Of course, China currently is not all that similar to the Hive, but from what many people say on these forums and elsewhere, I assume this fact is not widely known.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
I also believe that Yang probably gets bad press. After having lived in China for a year, I know for a fact that the Beijing government does. If Yang (or, more accurately, Sheng) can bring about a faction that works similarly to the current Chinese state, then I'd be happy with that.

Of course, China currently is not all that similar to the Hive, but from what many people say on these forums and elsewhere, I assume this fact is not widely known.

All of the factions leaders are caricatures to some extent, with Yang and Miriam being pretty out there and Deirdre being a very light dig at the greens. Still there is at least a grain of truth to the caricatures. Being a westerner in Beijing is one thing, and being a Tibetan dissident in Tibet is quite another.

[name]

I just want to say that the faction leaders are all complete and total, inhumane, sick, twisted, murdering, oppressive, dogmatic, unfeeling psychopaths.

The exceptions I see are Diedre and Lal, who appear to be nearly perfect. I think they're in the game to be the good guys. I think you're SUPPOSED to love them; they are the creators pictures of ideal societies and the others are presented in such a horrifying manner to be entertaining propoganda.

There is nothing wrong with the ideas that are the basis for the other societies (no, religion is not a bad thing. It, whatever you worship, is critical for happiness IMO), but in the manner they are presented, I'd rather just go down with the Unity.