Favorite Units

[Dimension]

I think my REAL favorite unit would have to be my "Cargo 99" unit I design a couple turns before I transcend most games...

0-12t-2*4 ... Infantry Supply Crawler unit with Stasis Generator, Singularity Engine, Antigrav Struts, and Trance. The production cost is 99, and once you have the Nano Factory, it only costs 100 energy to upgrade a plain 0-1-1 crawler to the 0-12t-2*4 version. The things are as worm-proof as they come, but the important part is that they can get to your Mag Tubes twice as fast with the struts, and it only takes 22 of them to do the whole Ascent.

Cashing in crawlers for SP's is of course no new idea, but 100 credits for 99 minerals is about as efficient as they come, and if you have 22 crawlers within 1 square of a mag tube, you can disband all your other crawlers, and do a mass upgrade of your remaining 22 then Transcend the same turn.

[lbores]

quote: Originally posted by Skanderbeg on 02-27-2001 04:31 AM Addition: I hate those Unity foils! Okay, sometimes they pop an AA, but most times they are only IoD-food, and they are so slow!

I always make a 0-1t-3 Trance-port. When I find a Unity foil - I upgrade it to one of these. Not only increases the range but doubles its capacity as well. I prefer a DD Trance-port as soon as I can get one though.

And I never thought about a colony pod on a needle jet chassis. Duh!

[Skanderbeg]

quote: Originally posted by lbores on 02-27-2001 09:39 AM I always make a 0-1t-3 Trance-port.

When I got unity foils and they were not killed by IoD's, I normally
use them in this way:
Upgrade to 0-3res-3-Trance foil
Load a colony pod on it.
Send it to an empty island and build a base.
The 3res-foil is used as garrison.

quote: And I never thought about a colony pod on a needle jet chassis. Duh!

The flying colony pod is certainly less effective and much more expensive than the drop colony pod. But (especially with blind research) it is availiable quite early in the game.
And it has a very long range and is fast. Tip: You must have at least one move point left on the second turn before hitting B, or the flying pod will crash down!
I don't build this unit in most of my games, but there are times when the flying colony pod is the game-turner.
I remeber one of my games, where the Caretakers were on an island with the Manifold Nexus. I build a base with a flying pod right in the center of the Nexus, stealing it away from the Caretakers. And the flying pod was accompanied by a bunch of X-needlejets. Of course, the first next turns were hard fighting against the Alien attackers, but then the X-jets cleaned the island of the Caretakers.

Although I have never played multiplayer, I think that the use of a flying colony pod in a multiplayer game could be a nice surprise...

"Steelborn, Starborn"

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Am I the only one who values the lowly infantry transport? Beginning game it allows exploration outside boundaries without pacification issues whilst running FM.

It is a great escort for probe teams in an otherwise somewhat hostile environment. Say you want to infiltrate an opponent at truce or treaty and every time you send a probe team into his territory he bounces you back to your HQ by use of his speeders. Simply load up a infantry transport and place into position so that you can unload your transport and move into the base in question for infiltration without fear of bouncing.

They can be upgraded to armored versions for enhanced movement of speeders in wartime thereby negating forestation defense.

They can be upgraded to drop armored trance configuration and loaded with a former for pod popping in distant lands. The Former builds an airbase so that transport has a return ticket.

All in all I love these little guys.


PS. MariOne - LOL and I thought I was long winded with numerical detail that follows . Seriously tho' one small nitpick IIRC the singularity reactor vs. natives issue was supposed to have been corrected in latest SMACX patch perhaps even in latest SMAC patch but am not quite positive on the SMAC patch.
Og


[This message has been edited by Ogie Oglethorpe (edited February 28, 2001).]

[big_canuk]

Wow!

Printed and taped to the wall. Marione just saved me another 2 or 3 turns to transcendence. Thanks again, as usual!



edit: *As usual* , Marione's post is too long to print. So, I copied it to notepad, and edited just to keep upgrade ec costs. It is now a permenent resident in my smac documents with my game notes!
[This message has been edited by big_canuk (edited February 28, 2001).]

[The Commodore]

I'm a big early-navy buff(with a name like'The Commodore' what do you think),and I find that a 6res-1-4 foil is hard to beat.

[Blake]

Ogie, interesting stuff on infantry transports, I have used the little critters but only as a "Bridge" between a sea base and land, it costs 10 less than a foil transport, and is cheaper to upgrade to clean.

[mark13]

quote: sorry Dim, but I have to nitpick on you, just a little.

ROTFLOL - fantastic job, MariOne - 200 rows for a gravship supply? That is ridiculous...but well worth it...it saves me having to guess in future how many ecs I'll need, at least...

[lbores]

quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe on 02-28-2001 03:26 PM Am I the only one who values the lowly infantry transport?

Infantry transport? Can I assume a transport pod on a crawler chassis? And how do you get your infantry to board one? At a base with 'L'? I tried building a transport on a rover chassis to move AA's but couldn't get them to board it.

What's the point? Don't they only move one tile at a time?

[This message has been edited by lbores (edited March 01, 2001).]

[MariOne]

sorry Dim, but I have to nitpick on you, just a little.

IMHO, a SC-12t-2*4 Grav, is a sign of poor designing skills.
Both per se, and towards the purpose of upgrading crawlers to be cashed in.
This regardless the real utility of the unit, I'm talking about cost-effectiveness.

First, the unit above costs 9 rows.
This is more precise than stating the minerals, because the mineral value may vary depending on the Industry SE setting you have.
Besides, upgrade costs only take *rows* into account, and NOT the actual minerals.

Regarding the unit per se (forget for now the upgrade part):
The SAME unit, with a Hover (or Rover) chassis, would cost THE SAME 9 rows.
This means that if you really find the unit useful on the field, you're wasting the possibility of a *better* chassis for FREE.
The SAME unit with a Quantum Reactor costs only 8 rows. True you lose 10 hitpoints this way, you lose more than you spare. But you know that in PSI combat the Singularity Engine is disadvantaged (IIRC this has never been fixed). You praise this unit qualities against worms. It's indeed against worms that the unit would be better with a Quantum Chamber. It could have sense with *4 Reactor if you make it ECM against rovers.


Let's now come to the upgrade part.
You might have a point to keep the Infantry chassis, if you have lots of basic crawlers to upgrade, as we know that you can't change chassis.
But:
- for *upgrade to cash* purposes, you have far more cost-effective designs with Infantry chassis
- if by the time you get to Transcendence you still have basic crawlers, then you might revise you management. After Fusion, you can have SC-1-2*2 Fusion Speeder Crawlers at the same cost of a basic one. You should thus cash in the older ones when you have the occasion.

When you upgrade from a basic SC-1-1 to your "Cargo 99" (do you always run at -1 Industry to put that 99 in the name?), you spend your ec to *transform* something you already have.
You HAVE a basic crawler, worth 3 rows. After the upgrade you have a 9 rows unit you intend to cash in. What did you pay your ec for? You paid them to gain 6 extra rows, not 9. You already had 3, without needing to pay anything more.

In your example you cite the NanoFactory. You're right, but unless you play against the AI, only one of the players will have the NF, and that might be not you. So, for generality let's consider it an optional and compare the figures without.
Then, the upgrade from the basic cralwer to your Cargo99 will cost 200 ec to get 6 extra mineral rows. Thus each added mineral row costed you 33.33ec (NF 16.66). With Industry +2 it would have costed less directly rushing the project!
With Infantry chassis, consider a SC^-3t-1, a DropTrance Plasma *fission* crawler. It cost 14 rows. It means that to upgrade up to it you pay 160 ec to get 11 extra row. You pay 14.54ec per added row (7.27 with NF!).
Using the settings of your example (-1 industry & NF) this means 80ec to add 121 extra minerals, instead of your 100ec to add 66.
If you really need to have armor 12, using a purposeless ability lets you have a local optimum in upgrade effectiveness: a Drop Clean (!) crawler will cost 34 rows. You'd pay 450 for the extra 31 rows, at the cost of 14.516 each (NF 7.258). 225ec for 341 added minerals in your settings.
If you really have to stick to Infantry chassis, you can be even more effective, but you'll have to produce on purpose some armored Fusion Crawler to be upgraded. You can get down to 13.63 per added row (and 13.33 if you accept to spend 4 rows instead of 3 to produce each one).

But once you decide to produce new crawlers after Fusion, you might prefer to get Speeders, which are not armored but offer greater mobility and flexibility, and far greater upgrade opportunities.
Look at this:
You build a SC-1-2*2
Upgrade to a SC^-2t-2*1 DropTrance (23 rows)
pay 240ec for the added 20 rows at 12ec each.
Upgrade to a SC^-4t-2*1 (32 rows)
pay 350ec for the added 29 rows at 12.069ec each
Fusion Hover Supplies are almost as upgrade effective, but they cost one more row to produce, and it may not be worth if you keep them long on the field before before you cash them in.

It is also interesting to start with an armored Quantum Rover (or Hover):
a SC-4-2*3 costs 5 initial rows
upgrade to a SC^-4t-2*1 (32 rows)
That is, leave the armor as it is, add DropTrance, and remove the reactor
pay 320ec for the 27 added rows at 11.852 each!
the same with a SC-3-3*3 to a SC^-3t-3*1
(in both this cases, adding also armor 12 will yeld 63-67 extra rows for less than 12.1ec each!)


Then there's a final scoop!
If you have AntiGrav you also have Gravships (and with Jets or Copter it's the same anyway).
Build a SC-1-8*3 initial cost 5 rows.
For some reason, above armor 4, air supplies are MORE expensive with Fusion and Quantum reactors!
So, if you upgrade it to a SC-12-8*3, Clean & Secure (with air chassis you have less abilities to pick from!) its value will skyrocket to...
200 rows!
Yes, the same cost of the Ascent.
You'd add the extra 195 rows at a cost of 2110ec (1055 NF), for 10.821each (5.41 NF!!!).
You need to have quantum reactor for that, but then starting with a single air supply you can buy yourself the Ascent with mere 2110ec.
Note, using Fusion Speeders, you can obtain the same with 4 synth and 4 plasma and 2120ec (1060 NF). But you'd need to start with 8 crawlers, and the added rows would be just 176.
Or, lacking Quantum, you can use a Clean Secure Fusion Stasis Copter Supply yielding 188 total rows (+183rows per 1990ec at 10.874 each), and esaily provide the missing 12.

Compare all this with your proposal where you needed double the money (4400ec, 2200 WITH NF) and *22 starting basic crawlers* (!).

-----

Some final considerations.
You have to know whether your design is to be really used on the field, or if it is just a shell for upgrading and cashing in.
If it has to be kept on the field, of course you want to keep it as cheapest as possible but able to defend itself.
If it's a shell to be cashed in, you instead want it to be worth the most nminerals possible, without using too much armor, because of the nature of the upgrade costs.

I showed you that in both cases there were better options for your design.

You might have a point in the sense that your design was a *compromise* between the two goals. Well, as a cashable unit, it was a pretty LAME use of your ec in all sense anyway.

And anyway let's consider also the timeframe when it becomes available.
You need Temporal Mechanics for Armor 12.
You need Graviton Theory for AntiGrav, which means you also got the Quantum Reactor. You also researched Singularity Mechanics to have the Engine.
Then you say that the Cargo99 can defend from worms, and then be used to build the Ascent.
Well, TempMech is usually the LAST tech youget before Threshold! If it's not so, you're unlucky or you have to revise your research path.
So, strictly speaking, the Cargo99 is NOT supposed to be around more than 3-4 turns (you yourself said a couple of turns)! This makes it to my eyes a design made with the MAIN purpose of getting cashed into the Voice and the Ascent. And we saw that there can be *MUCH* better in that sense.
More.
If your goal is the Ascent as you say, then you DON'T NEED to research the SingReactor, NOR the Quantum one, and even less AntiGrav & Gravships. All these techs are in a branch that doesn't lead to transcendence, and which you actually need to research only if your goal is a Conquest Victory...

---

I hope you don't take this personally, just my two cents...
I saw you posting very well organized and systematic info...
This proposal of you was instead just a picturesque, folkloristic contribution

[Dimension]

quote: Originally posted by MariOne on 02-28-2001 12:44 PM sorry Dim, but I have to nitpick on you, just a little.

Turned out to be more than just a little, didn't it? Well, here goes...

There's pretty poor justification for you to say my crawlers suck as much as you did. You make it sound like there's something wrong with having regular infantry crawlers in the late game. Maybe in multiplayer, when someone could make a concerted effort to get a chopper into the center of your territory and wipe out 10 at a time, but most of the time you're better off to leave things the way they are, and just upgrade the crawlers near your borders. Obviously you should be making speeder crawlers when you have Fusion, but are you suggesting people take the time to produce rover replacements for the old crawlers towards the center of their territory?

Also, you're trying to tell me I can't count on having the Nano Factory. Come on. Most people are talking about single-player around here. Even if you are talking MP, it's not so far-fetched to consider the situation of the first person to start the transcent also having the Nano Factory. Sure, I was completely wrong in my thinking about crawler values, but to criticize me for referring to the common situation of having The Nano Factory when starting the ascent isn't nit-picky, it's ridiculous.

With you talking about multiplayer and crawlers, I have to ask... How do you cash in crawlers in multiplayer? Is PBEM completely different from TCP/IP? I've never done PBEM, but in TCP/IP you can't cash crawlers. You also start with a lot more units than you should.

That 0-12-14*3 Secure, Clean gravship supply costs 2000. With Eudamonic/Planned/Wealth and playing Yang that's still 1000 minerals. With The Nano Factory, it's 1050 to upgrade to it. It's a bad idea to even consider using it to rush Transcendance when you've already got crawlers everywhere that could be cashed in for a large percentage of the Ascent, and a few upgraded then cashed in for the rest.

If you're going to start off a post so critically, at least get it right. "Poor designing skills" isn't the problem. You should've said, "Your 0-12t-2*4 Grav crawler is a sign of complete ignorance regarding the way upgrade costs relate to mineral value."

quote: Then, the upgrade from the basic cralwer to your Cargo99 will cost 200 ec to get 6 extra mineral rows. Thus each added mineral row costed you 33.33ec (NF 16.66). With Industry +2 it would have costed less directly rushing the project!

With Industry +2 the Ascent costs 1600 minerals. You should know that rushing costs 8 energy per mineral in the early stages and 4 energy per mineral until it's almost complete. Are you suggesting that spending 12,800 energy for the ascent is cheaper than spending 2200 upgrading 22 crawlers that can complete it in one turn? Even if you've cashed in a few crawlers, the cost is still more than double what upgrading my crawlers is. Your post is extremely informative, except for the needless (and aparently totally incorrect) parts where you're just trying to be harsh.

ANYWAY, allow me to get on with talking about what I've actually learned from your post

I think you understand that Trance is only a 2-cost ability for armor ratings under 4 (and is free for armor ratings over 9), so Drop/Clean are the only 2-cost abilities available with a Stasis Generator. At armor ratings 4 and under, ECM and Trance both cost 2. Just wanted to include that info for everyone.

My problem is that I thought the upgrade cost and cash-out value were directly proportional. So let me look at the actual upgrade costs... I'll name these things by the number of minerals they cost with +0 industry just so I can keep them straight myself.

Infantry crawlers by mineral cost and price to upgrade from 30-mineral standard crawler (without NF):

Cargo 90 (0-12t-2*4 GravTrance) 200en = 2.22/min = 3.33/min added
Cargo 80 (0-12t-2*3 GravTrance) 180en = 2.25/min = 3.60/min added
Cargo 120 (0-12t-2*2 GravTrance) 220en = 1.83/min = 2.40/min added
Cargo 230 (0-12t-2 GravTrance) 340en = 1.48/min = 1.70/min added

Cargo 70 (0^-1t-1 DropTrance) 60en = 0.86/min = 1.50/min added
Cargo 110 (0^-2t-1 DropTrance) 120en = 1.09/min = 1.50/min added
Cargo 140 (0^-3t-1 DropTrance) 160en = 1.14/min = 1.45/min added
Cargo 160 (0^-4t-2 DropTrance) 180en = 1.13/min = 1.38/min added
Cargo 180 (0^-5-1 DropClean) 220en = 1.22/min = 1.47/min added
Cargo 200 (0^-6-1 DropClean) 240en = 1.20/min = 1.41/min added
Cargo 250 (0^-8-1 DropClean) 320en = 1.28/min = 1.45/min added
Cargo 290 (0^-10-1 DropClean) 380en = 1.31/min = 1.46/min added
Cargo 340 (0^-12-1 DropClean) 440en = 1.29/min = 1.42/min added

So, it looks as though the upgrade cost for any reactor is:
(Rows + armor-1) * 10 ... round down to nearest multiple of 20
Psi armor is treated as level 6 armor.

Here we see that the 160-mineral Silksteel DropTrance (or ECM) which you didn't mention is the most cost-effective upgrade, requiring only 12 crawlers (2160 energy total upgrade) to Transcend, plus a rush cost under 100 to finish it off, even if you cash in nothing else. This is about the same as the 2110 energy 0-12-14*3 SecureClean air crawler you cite as being the most efficient, and it gets around the inherent absurdity of using a single unit to Transcend, which is wasting tons of minerals for all those un-cashed crawlers.

Now let's look at the efficiency of Speeder Crawlers:

Fission
Speeder Cargo 140 (0^-1t-2 DropTrance) 140en = 1.00/min = 1.27/min added
Speeder Cargo 230 (0^-2t-2 DropTrance) 240en = 1.04/min = 1.20/min added
Speeder Cargo 270 (0^-3t-2 DropTrance) 280en = 1.04/min = 1.167/min added
Speeder Cargo 320 (0^-4t-2 DropTrance) 340en = 1.06/min = 1.172/min added
Speeder Cargo 360 (0^-5-2 DropClean) 400en = 1.11/min = 1.21/min added
Speeder Cargo 410 (0^-6-2 DropClean) 460en = 1.12/min = 1.21/min added
Speeder Cargo 500 (0^-8-2 DropClean) 560en = 1.12/min = 1.19/min added
Speeder Cargo 590 (0^-10-2 DropClean) 680en = 1.15/min = 1.21/min added
Speeder Cargo 680 (0^-12-2 DropClean) 780en = 1.15/min = 1.20/min added

Fusion
Speeder Cargo 70F (0^-1t-2*2 DropTrance) 60en = 0.86/min = 1.50/min added
Speeder Cargo 140F (0^-2t-2*2 DropTrance) 140en = 1.00/min = 1.27/min added
Speeder Cargo 160F (0^-3t-2*2 DropTrance) 180en = 1.13/min = 1.38/min added
Speeder Cargo 180F (0^-4t-2*2 DropTrance) 200en = 1.11/min = 1.33/min added
Speeder Cargo 200F (0^-5-2*2 DropClean) 240en = 1.20/min = 1.41/min added
Speeder Cargo 230F (0^-6-2*2 DropClean) 280en = 1.22/min = 1.40/min added
Speeder Cargo 270F (0^-8-2*2 DropClean) 340en = 1.26/min = 1.42/min added
Speeder Cargo 320F (0^-10-2*2 DropClean) 400en = 1.25/min = 1.38/min added
Speeder Cargo 360F (0^-12-2*2 DropClean) 460en = 1.28/min = 1.39/min added

Again, the upgrade cost for any reactor is:
(Rows + armor-1) * 10 ... round down to nearest multiple of 20

Here we see that the most efficient thing to upgrade your fusion rovers to is the 270-mineral Plasma Fission model, at 1.167 energy per mineral added, or 11.67/row (5.83 with Nano Factory).

EDIT: I've decided that the full cost/mineral is pretty insignificant, as when you're building crawlers you always get out everything that you put in, so the only significant thing is the extra minerals you get from upgrades.

You have to consider the crawlers you have, how many minerals you need, and what the most efficient units are that fit into the situation.

Say you have 30 crawlers (20 basic infantry and 10 basic fusion rovers). You can upgrade 3 rovers to the 320-mineral model and 1 to the 270-mineral model for 1300 energy (1230 minerals), then just cash in the remaining 26 crawlers for 30 each (2010 minerals total), which gives you complete transcendence for 30 basic crawlers and 1300 energy (650 with Nano Factory).

In that case, the 320-mineral speeder is useful because it gets you closer to the total minerals you need, and your average efficiency for the upgrades is still 1110 extra minerals for 1300 energy, or 1.171 energy/min added.

You would have to be a very poor player to need to actually build any new crawlers strictly to be upgraded and cashed in to Transcend, since you should just be ditching all the ones you have on the last turn. It is, however, always good to have crawlers for earlier projects, which brings us to the Needlejet. The 0-1-14*3 Quantum Penetrator Supply is 50 minerals to produce. Jets are available early and can generally get where they need to go in one move. Unfortunately, Clean is their only 2-cost ability with armor above Silksteel.

Fission
Air Supply 250 (0-1t-10 CleanTrance) 240en = 0.96/min = 1.20/min added
Air Supply 320 (0-2t-10 CleanTrance) 320en = 1.00/min = 1.19/min added
Air Supply 360 (0-3t-10 CleanTrance) 380en = 1.06/min = 1.23/min added
Air Supply 410 (0-4t-10 CleanTrance) 440en = 1.07/min = 1.22/min added

Fusion
Air Supply 440F (0-5t-12*2 CleanTrance) 480en = 1.09/min = 1.23/min added
Air Supply 600F (0-6t-12*2 CleanTrance) 640en = 1.07/min = 1.16/min added
Air Supply 940 (0-8t-12*2 CleanTrance) 1000en = 1.06/min = 1.12/min added
Air Supply 1380 (0-10-12*2 SecureClean) 1460en = 1.06/min = 1.10/min added
Air Supply 1880 (0-12-12*2 SecureClean) 1980en = 1.06/min = 1.08/min added

Quantum
Air Supply 440Q (0-5t-14*3 CleanTrance) 480en = 1.09/min = 1.23/min added
Air Supply 600Q (0-6t-14*3 CleanTrance) 640en = 1.07/min = 1.16/min added
Air Supply 980 (0-8t-14*3 CleanTrance) 1040en = 1.06/min = 1.12/min added
Air Supply 1440 (0-10-14*3 SecureClean) 1520en = 1.06/min = 1.09/min added
Air Supply 2000 (0-12-14*3 SecureClean) 2100en = 1.05/min = 1.08/min added

Singularity
Air Supply 1720 (0-12-16*4 SecureClean) 1820en = 1.06/min = 1.09/min added

All those variations are surprisingly similar. If you went through the game with an extremely small number of crawlers, you might actually use the 1440-mineral Quantum Needlejet supply to Transcend. Needlejets are otherwise impractical for Transcending, because you should be cashing every crawler in--you certainly won't need them anymore.

Keep in mind that the 270-mineral rover supply has an efficiency of 1.167/min added, which is better than every jet except the nearly useless expensive ones. That rover is by far the best thing to build/upgrade for rushing SP's in the mid-game.

If, however, you don't have a lot of cash to build/upgrade rovers, you may just want a supply transport to essentially have multiple bases working on one SP. At this point, upgrade efficiency is moot, because you always get all the minerals out of a crawler that you put in, and the needlejets start looking very good. You just want to design a jet that can get where you want it to go in a single turn, and you want a model that costs barely more than your base can produce in one turn. You don't want to go producing multiple crawlers that cost less than your base's minerals/turn, because then the extra will be wasted. You don't want to go producing expensive crawlers and end up rushing production, because at that point you'd be better off building a basic crawler and upgrading it.

[This message has been edited by Dimension (edited March 02, 2001).]

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Lbores,

Infantry transports are yes a transport on a crawler/infantry chassis. They move only one square but when unloaded allow the unloaded unit full movement.

What this means is take a best weapon infantry/speeder unit and hit 'L' to load into the transport. Take the transport (armored works best) and move at it slow pace of 1 per turn. Say for example you are situated as follows:

b f X

where b = base square
f = forest square
X = where you are with your best weapon unit in transport

Then move the infantry transport into the forest square. Click on the stack of units. Activate your best weapon unit and attack the base square. This effectively allows infantry units a two movement capability speeders a three movement capability and elite probes a 4 movement possibility. Whats more if you armor your transport it will defend before your lowly best weapon -1-X unit making the likelihood of of your attacking unit survival much greater.

This effectively negates the imposed penalty of forest on movement and thereby allows attacks on those bases.

It only gains you one movement point but that one movement point can be critical. It also allows you to build cheap best weapon-1-x units rather than having to try to armor everything.

Finally unlike sea bound transports if the trasnport is killed the carried units only get collateral damage (except probe teams of course they go poof).


Og
[This message has been edited by Ogie Oglethorpe (edited March 01, 2001).]

[RedFred]

Dang. I mostly followed MariOne's post, but now my brain is starting to hurt.

[NorthSwordsman]

quote: Originally posted by Dimension on 03-01-2001 05:44 PM With you talking about multiplayer and crawlers, I have to ask... How do you cash in crawlers in multiplayer? Is PBEM completely different from TCP/IP? I've never done PBEM, but in TCP/IP you can't cash crawlers. You also start with a lot more units than you should. [This message has been edited by Dimension (edited March 01, 2001).]

Actually, Dimension, you cash in crawlers in TCP/IP/MP by moving the crawler to the base you want to cash it into, then hitting "o". That will bring up your "crawler screen". It's not automatic like SP. PBEM works the same way as the SP variety does. The TCP et. al. does things a bit different. Another bug. . Anyone wanna rewrite this thing to eliminate the bugs?

Your logic tracks pretty clean, but I'm still wading through the numbers. Are you a math major or professor at MIT? .

NS
"But to the hero, when his sword
Has won the battle for the free,
Thy voice sounds like a prophet’s word;
And in its hollow tones are heard
The thanks of millions yet to be."-
Fitz-Greene Halleck (1790–1867)

[Skanderbeg]

Fresh from my design workshop:

Auxilliary cruiser 2-3res-6-AAA.

The armoured rover of the seven seas. And pretty cheap (30 minerals).

In my current game, I was playing Lal and started on a handkerchief-sized penninsula with Marr at the bottleneck! Urgh! Only solution was to go on the sea (swimming in shark basin as well because my custom made marine alien faction was in the game as well!) and play Lal the Svensgard style.
And with all that low mineral seabases I needed some sort of cheap and fast ship.
Combinated with some needeljets, these ships are great for capturing and holding sea bases! Ask Morgan and Punisher Murgur from the "Manifold Buccaniers", they can tell You!

"Steelborn, Starborn"