Former build strategy

[MariOne]

Hey, I had liberally sprinkled my post with disclaimers ("I think...", "IIRC", "not sure", "should check"...).

I recall very well that you contributed to determine the undocumented TreeFarms effect in the ED formula (and apart that, the revised formula is pretty much the same we all already knew from the Datalinks).

It's just that I recalled that we did wonder wether a negative TerraformingDamage term would have increased clean minerals, but I thought to recall that someone determined it didn't.
It's not something weird, I just recalled it the other way round...
Thank you for reminding me, and for the save, which I'll donwload from home this evening (I am an advocate of testing in the editor any doubt I have, but you have spared me a bit of setup ).
(speaking of memory, it sounds MUCH more weird to me now that # of techs has an effect on ED, THIS I'll definitely have to check on my own!)

Zak7's wording: "planting forests reduces ecodamage caused by terraforming, not from minerals"
looked more consistent with my memories.
I was mistaken, as you pointed out.
Without that clause, Terraforming plainly contributes to ED, for the good (Forests) or for the bad, and without its effect being even dampened by Goodfacs!

For ease of reference of those who inquired above, here's the link to the article you contributed to write.

http://apolyton.net/misc/column/175_ecodamage.shtml

BTW, there's one quirk that I didn't bother to nitpick at the time:
Kelp Farms
The way you wrote the formula, it says that a Kelp contributes with 1 if unworked and with 0 if worked.
IIRC it should have contributed always with 1 (or eventually always with 0). Do you recall wether this was a positive finding of yours, or if it's just due to a loophole in the way the formual is written there?

BTW 2, also not documented there is that NerveStapling too contributes to EcoDamage, I have personally experienced it very recently, and that was the only atrocity I was committing in that game.

Finally, I "THOUGHT" to recall several cases in which I saw my ED going immediately down on the very moment I simply homed new units in a polluting base, reducing with their support the Net Minerals produced there.
After my failure above, I will have to recheck this too...

[Blake]

(speaking of memory, it sounds MUCH more weird to me now that # of techs has an effect on ED, THIS I'll definitely have to check on my own!)

This is very verified, I had to add some techs to get above 0 ED at all (a naive tester of the forest theory would have opened a scenerio then wondered why they are getting no ED at any production level...)

There are typos in that column, prehaps it would be worthwhile writing out the formula in a cleaner, more concise way.

The effect of minor atrocities on ED has not been nailed down, it's still flying free for someone to tackle. This is because it is HARD to pin down the effect, sometimes a few minor atrocities *seem* to create ED while other times you can hit the sanction limit before ED kicks in, but whatever happens it does kick in all at once, the theory being it's equal to 1 major atrocity worth - the magnitude would be easy to test but the trigger remains elusive. (my theory is it has something to do with diplomatic relations... prolly crazy theory but if your vendetta with everyone the ED seems to happen a lot quicker...)

Theres also some odd effects which creep in meaning that clean threshold is *higher* than calculated - this effect starts appearing at around a CML of 50-60 IIRC.

Another omission is that existence of Cent.Preserves DO directely increase clean limit at the base, due to rounding if there was 5 "dirty" minerals, after the CP there will be only 2 dirty minerals, if there is an even number of dirty minerals, no change. IMO mentioning this effect would only confuse the big picture.

Anyway the point of the new formula was mostly to provide pratical advice on how to play - the old force a pop and build TF's thing. It is not about nailing down every single nuance of how ED works, ultimately only the big picture really matters - the main causes of ED and the main ways to reduce it. Altough I do admit it would be nice to know exactly what effect minor atrocities have on ED.

[big_canuk]

Originally posted by MariOne
BTW 2, also not documented there is that NerveStapling too contributes to EcoDamage, I have personally experienced it very recently, and that was the only atrocity I was committing in that game.

Hmmm...

Sometimes nerve stapling causes ecodamage:

Verified case:

1. Captured bases.

Sometimes nerve stapling does not cause ecodamage:

Verified cases:

1. Miriam on own bases, early to mid game

2. Caretakers on own bases, early to mid game

I am not sure what other factors may affect whether nerve stapling affects ecodamage or not.

Now on topic:

I generally build about 3 to 4 formers per base, as soon as min production allows it. It seems that if I have enough mins to build a 3 row crawler in 1 turn, then I build a crawler. If I don't have enough and need them, then I will build either a 2 row former(will cost support), or a 2 row infantry probe(no support). Often production scheduling will determine the build, with the unit moving to where it is most needed.

Coastal bases build sea formers as soon as getting doct:flex. I will often try to rehome formers from coastal bases to interior bases, to allow the coastal bases the industry boost for sea formers, foil probes, transports, and a limited number of naval units, if it seems air power will be a while away.

bc

[Straybow]

Don't forget Rover-formers, so they can move into a tile and start roading right away. One per base; usually the rest can be slow formers. Don't forget the deforestation trick: when you start forestation and the forest grows spontaneously before you're done you can build a quick farm and harvest the 5 minerals if you have a few extra formers handy.

Yes, coastal cities shift their land formers to inland cities and concentrate on seaformers and supply foils. Build harnesses on all shelf tiles outside radii and send the foils to exploit them. This can generate huge income.

[Kajak]

Sikander ,
Tried your system( poorly probably) and it worked for me for my first big time victory.
Also discovered something ( also probably well disscussed in the golden lost threads of time) and that particularly for your system is the great effects of the "t" key.
1st hit all the mobile things and the bases go away, leaving only improvements.
2nd hit removes all the none living improvements ,
3rd hit removees all improvements including enhanced squares.
4th hit returns to regular view. ( We can leave out the panic when I first hit "t" by mistake).
One last point it only seems to affect the current view not the entire map.
With all the flags and stuff of the crawler system it really helped plan the advance to mag transportation.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Kajak
Sikander ,
Tried your system( poorly probably) and it worked for me for my first big time victory.
Also discovered something ( also probably well disscussed in the golden lost threads of time) and that particularly for your system is the great effects of the "t" key.
1st hit all the mobile things and the bases go away, leaving only improvements.
2nd hit removes all the none living improvements ,
3rd hit removees all improvements including enhanced squares.
4th hit returns to regular view. ( We can leave out the panic when I first hit "t" by mistake).
One last point it only seems to affect the current view not the entire map.
With all the flags and stuff of the crawler system it really helped plan the advance to mag transportation.

Yea, I discovered the T command by accident also, and it is really handy for eliminating clutter. Nice work with your first big win!