whats the best group?

[Misotu]

Weirdgod

The same subjects do come round many times - but that's because new people are reading and posting here. It's much more interesting to have a discussion than, say, spend a week reading the archives

Anyway, I quite like an opportunity to make excuses for liking the easy factions

Post whatever you like. Ask whatever you want. You'll probably do better than me. Not only do I ask questions that have been asked - and answered - 6 months ago. Quite often, it was me who asked the same question originally

[mark13]

I like the Pirates, personally, as they have a totally different feel to many of the other factions. First of all, starting at sea can be a massive advantage - it basically gives you a free Recycling Tanks at every base. Being based in the ocean can also incur diplomatic advantages - the AI factions just aren't going to bother with you until they have a reasonably sized navy. However, mid-game is the Pirates' downfall - an inability to pop boom and the -1 efficiency can hit the builder player hard. It is during this period that you must go on the offensive - and your marine detachment and free Naval Yards stand you in good stead to do this.

The late game can be very slow going for the Pirates without the CV - it can be a long road to transcendence. The efficiency problem is nothing more than a minor inconvenience once you get into the mid-game proper, and by that time you should be well placed to rule the waves anyway.

I must confess that I've only ever played the Pirates twice to the end - it will be interesting to see what everyone else thinks!

Mark13

[Capt Dizle]

Misotu, I stand ready and quite pleased to make supercilious, content-free remarks about how it was all over and done with a long time before you grew up and daddy bought you a SMAC toy.

Thanks for the zip file.

jt

[Misotu]

Oh well you know ... sometimes I just get irritable

[Vev]

I like to play all the different factions and explore their personilities and their ability to function under various circumstances.

I have a question, does the drone's "take over rioting cities" ever work?

The problem is that i have a friend who seems to just had enough of civ2 and alpha centauri after playing it - it's one of the few games he has the runs well on his computer and enjoys playing - for about couple of years.

From what I gathered, he likes using UoP. So much so that he does like using any of the other factions. Another reason for not using the other factions or even playing differenty, is that once he finished the game in one way, he fails to see the purpose of playing it again in different approaches.

Other reasons are:
- it runs too slow on a P200 with 640x400 res and low res graphics
- the computer is dumb

Now that I'm in holidays, I just found out his interest in playing a multiplayer AC is virtually nil.
It's very frustrating and my other friend has never played Civ type games at all.

Can somebody help me?

[Kirnwaffen]

Question: What does everyone think of the Pirates? I'm an ardent fan of the Pirates, but I don't see them mentioned much.

[mark13]

Vere,
The problem is you can't force someone to like playing a game - they either do or they don't. As such, you can't force a particular style of play on someone. Of course, you can encourage them to play a certain way, but you can't enforce that philosophy.

If the main problem is that is runs too slowly, change to 800x600 resolution. I have a p200 and the game runs perfectly.

[mark13]

I did lose a size 6 city the other werk - the fortunate thing was the faction the base revolted to was my pact brother - I just bought the base back for 200 credits....

[weird god]

i think it was my pact-brother as well...but i´m not 100% sure...

[weird god]

quote: Originally posted by Vev on 11-13-2000 12:01 AM I have a question, does the drone's "take over rioting cities" ever work?

yes...i lost a city some weeks ago due to drones. consequence was that another faction got it - it was one of my most important and central city so i had to reload

------------------
mankind made alcohol, god made weed.....whom do you trust?

weird god, chief of EUROPA

[cbn]

Kirwaffen


In response to your question about the Pirates--

I think that it is obvious that their sea start makes them the most "different" of the factions. I agree with Mark13's comments about their early game and naval powers. I have found that you can meet everyone early and face no opposition to your seaborne expansion. You should get more pods than anyone else and depending on AI placement also get the Planet + for taking control on the Nexus and also the unit and money + for the wreckage.


I tend to think of the Pirates as an "energy" faction (as opposed to the Drones mineral bias) and play them to sea-crawler lots of energy and rush-buy facilities I need. Minerals are the biggest problem so I generaly try to find a vacant area and go to land fairly early. One or two well positioned land bases can yeild a lot of space for mines and boreholes (and I have even found myself raising land to borehole some more). I have found without a land based city, AI factions will come along and I cannot use a worker on any land squares that are in someone else's territory even though the its adjacent to my sea base --grrrr. It does take a bit more effort to crawler in those minerals (ie a transport to get the crawler there) but I generally find that I want a transport or two nearby to ferry troops in any event (to go worm hunting for cash or deal with native or other artillery).


I have thought about sinking land using my sea formers to utilize my naval advantage but-- at least in the early years the cost was prohibitive.


My other comment is about probe warfare. The AI has NEVER built a probe foil or cruiser in my games (just lucky I guess) and seems unable to defend against mine. You can fairly easily steal tech and with the ability to generate energy from tidal harnessess I have had to impose a self handicap of not bribing AI cities in some games.


I also like the Pirates since they are different. I look forward to the next time they come up (I play SP with all factions random).

cbn

[mark13]

I guess Firaxis didn't see the need for writing a probe oil unit into the AI. Too bad - it would have made the game a lot more challenging....

Minerals can be a massive problem for the Pirates - and without base facilities you can't do much in the way of labs production. I always, in the early game at least, kelp/harness most of the tiles, but leave a good few for kelp/platform, as these produce 2 nuts and 2 mins each. Once a subsea trunkline is built, it pretty much negates the need for any sort of borehole - I find it is better to bring in energy from additional tidal harnesses.

I also agree with your comments on the Nexus and the Unity wreckage, although this relies a *lot* on the placement of the enemy factions.

[VoodooChild]

Fun with Pirates:

Build bases only on mineral specials. Between your auto pressure dome and the special your cranking out 5 minerals from the get go, and you'll need them for the inflated seas units costs. Kelp up to 6 squares around you, and harness as you have workers. After pop 6 all new borns become lab rats or doctors. You have plenty of food so if your next worker is going to be a drone, convert one of your pops to a lab rat. This will not only slow down your growth until you build more happy places, but it offsets some of your inefficiency.

After you get the standard techs, beeline to EthCal for the creches and built to reduce your horrid efficiency. Next goals are wealth, crawlers, lift nuts, and lift energy. Change to a Democracy as soon as you get the tech. Again you need to reduce your inefficiency, so what if you have to wait an extra two turns. Between the early limits and your harnesses, you don't need to fun free market. Green is the best since it will allow you to capture IoDs. You should let those IoDs explore and pop pods since they can carry AAs. Once you have Knowledge the tech race is yours.

Don't be tempted to increase your labs at the expense of credits. You need the money. Rush build every building, upgrade crawlers for SPs. Early in the game it might be worthwhile to switch to Planned to help with the first set of SPs, but after crawlers are on the scene forget about it.

By midgame you should be in fine shape, with more than enough income to deal with your lack of minerals. Your armies should be limited to trace garrisons behind a screen of ships and pfoils. Your destroyers should by laser or 3res with best armor. Keep your weapons small to increase your chances to capture ships. If you cause 80% damage without killing it, you'll have a new ship. Use your captured transports to dump armies onto the mainland.

[Zonk]

I would think that going from 640x400 to 800x600 would slow you down (in fact, I'm sure of it) The size of the map is probably the most important aspect here. If you have speed problems, the readme file addresses these issues.
Talking about the Hive, I don't enjoy playing them. The times I've been close to them in early game, they have caused a little trouble. I've found that if I have good enough weapon technology to mount even an averge offense, the good Chairman will usually pull back and defend, slowing down his offense enough for me to get up to speed. Of course, I'm talking about AI here, in SP.
I've been playing SMAC and SMAX since day one (SP) and the only faction that has overrun me early is the Cult (sorry little kid). Of course, I have had my problems with the Aliens. The key here is sending out some recon early, and adjusting your reasearch to weapon techs, if necessary. Know thine enemy. On the smaller maps, of course, you are going to have to be ready earlier. You won't have the luxury of 100 - 150 years of being all alone on your little corner of Chiron.
Just my opinions. I even had one game where Morgan acheived an economic victory. I was happily playing builder when I got notice that he would "corner the market" (or whatever the wording was) and by the time I could saddle up and get over to him, it was too late. Has anyone else been victim of an economic victory? I didn't have infiltration, and wasn't Gov, so I didn't get to take a look at his infrastructure. I can't remember which faction I was playing at the time.

[mark13]

quote: Has anyone else been victim of an economic victory?

I have to tell you about a game I had with the PKs, and the Morganites had initiated an economic victory. I was building a PB at the time, so I thought it would be a fairly easy job. What I didn't realise, though, was that his HQ was just too far away, so that had been scuppered. By this time, of course, I only had 12 turns to get him, so the plan was to build a base, get an AAA garrison in to defend it against missiles and the like, and use it as a stopping point for the PB. So I did that, and prayed that my two 1-<8>-1 garrisons would be enough to withstand the inevitable barrage of conventional missiles. I also rushed an Aerospace Complex there (this was SMAC, so no Cloudbase). Sure enough, SIX conventional missiles came in, but they could not penetrate the two garrisons, guarding the PB. So I sent it in the next turn, and blew up his HQ, with TWO TURNS remaining.

Man, that was some game, and I transcended not long after.