MY 2188 - Planning & execution thread

[vishniac]

Angels just took 36 hours to post the turn. Morgan are notorious for doing the same.

Prepare to get it tomorrow!

Do we plan a chat-session monday evening? Around 20h (CET)?

[Maniac]

Will we obliterate Enigma Machine if possible?

If we do, we'll get 20 years of sanctions, which is a rather long period.

So if a majority decides to want to obliterate EM, commerce loses all importance for a very long time. In that case I'd suggest we change strategy and begin committing all kinds of atrocities without holding back.

One example could be nerve stapling all our bases and then switching to free market.

If only those solar flares finally kicked in we could do all this unpunished...

[vishniac]

Originally posted by Maniac
Will we obliterate Enigma Machine if possible?

Yes!
That is, if it's obvious we can't keep it.

However, why free market?
I must admit I NEVER played with free market (but, hey, I never played with fundamentalism too ).
From my point of view, it just gives more money and a lot of trouble with fungi-pops destroying rural infrastructure .
With planned, we have popboom and the industry bonus.

[Zeiter]

Wouldn't nerve stapling ALL of our bases lead to massive fungal pops and mind worm hordes? Even more than we would be prepared for? But I agree that, if we choose to obliterate Enigma Machine, we should not bother with worrying about commerce income ever again.

If only we could capture and hold EM. If we could just wait one turn to capture it, we could have the HSA built, and we wouldn't have to worry about having it probed away. But the Angels would probably be able to mobilize some sort of defense by then, unfortunately. Or would they? Hmmm, I wonder...if we could destroy the scout patrol in EM, would that send EM into drone riots, thus stalling the completion of any sort of plasma defender? And even if they did build a plasma defender, we would still have the firepower to take it out, no? And then, as far as planes are concerned, They have, really, only four aircraft at their disposal with which they could attack cities. And if they sacrifice one by landing it in Mart Pact (in order to drop the population when we attack, so we can't use it), then that would make three aircraft that they could use (well, four, once that F-6 in production at Gemka's loft gets completed.

Hmmm, perhaps holding bases won't be possible without more fighters. So...when can we get more fighters? And if we decide to obliterate EM, do we then want to commit to a long-term struggle with the Data Angels, with the immediate military build up which that would entail? Or will we be satisfied with the blow we've done to them and resume our former course?

One example could be nerve stapling all our bases and then switching to free market.

Actually, if we switched to free market we'd have -3 police, precluding any nerve-stapling. But I suppose we could nerve staple before switching to FM, but like I said earlier, that's a lot of ecodamage!

Another thing to keep in mind is that the acquisition of the HSA opens up a slew of possibilities in terms of military adventures, as there would no longer be any need for probe defenders along with invasion forces. We could dust off some of our old Morgania invasion plans, for instance...

And just think, if the two techs that we acquire next turn are PSA and Fusion Power...uh-oh.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Zeiter
If only we could capture and hold EM. If we could just wait one turn to capture it, we could have the HSA built, and we wouldn't have to worry about having it probed away.

QFT!

Btw, I think the reason why mart7x5 started that thread about the probe rollover bug is because they're worrying that we might steal Pre-Sentient Algorithms from them as soon as they have it.

[Zeiter]

What I can't figure out is why the Angels took so long to research PSA. You would think that they would have done everything in their power to speed that research along, even if it meant moving sliders. And it's odd how, after researching previous techs so quickly, they could only get PSA in 16 turns. The tech cost must have leapt upward quite a bit after their last researched tech, or perhaps the Angels were getting those other techs via AAs.

Edit: QFT?

[vishniac]

Originally posted by Zeiter
If only we could capture and hold EM. If we could just wait one turn to capture it, we could have the HSA built, and we wouldn't have to worry about having it probed away.

I don't know whether they can get enough money to MC it back. I know their good probe-rating makes it cheaper but it must still cost a lot of money they don't have (and won't have if we take EM next turn).

That's what I say: IF we manage to send a rover to EM with its last bit of move, we upgrade him full! They could lose several units trying to retake the city. Even if they succeed, that would leave our other units unattacked and ready for the following turn.

In any case, monday is a holiday here. At reception of the turn sunday or monday, it's gonna be paper and pen and one hour of planning!

GOOD OMEN: Just saw this:Spartan Raid

[Snoddasmannen]

Originally posted by Maniac
Will we obliterate Enigma Machine if possible?
(...)
I'd suggest we change strategy and begin committing all kinds of atrocities without holding back.

What will be the worst case effects of this? I am very afraid of the Hive declaring war on us. In fact, I am very afraid that one of the other factions have managed to bribe them to attack us (what with their 12 noodles in Arcadia).

Also, having a rampaging Planet is not very nice. True it's easy money, but we'll also need to reterraform a whole lot.

So not having had any experience with this kind of atrocity, what are the pros and cons?

[Modo44]

I fear I do not follow. What have atrocities to do with the planet not liking us???

[Zeiter]

Atrocities decrease the clean mineral threshhold, just as tree farms increase the clean mineral threshhold.

I believe that a nerve stapling will decrease the clean mineral count by 1. Something like a planet buster attack or an obliteration of a bases decreases the clean mineral count by 5, I think. So...if we are going to nerve staple all of our bases, we better get ready for some major mind worm attacks.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by vishniac
However, why free market?
I must admit I NEVER played with free market (but, hey, I never played with fundamentalism too ).
From my point of view, it just gives more money and a lot of trouble with fungi-pops destroying rural infrastructure .
With planned, we have popboom and the industry bonus.

At the moment it gives some 120 extra labs compared to Planned (presuming we're running Knowledge) and some 90 extra credits.
Popbooming is indeed the biggest bonus of running Planned, but at the moment we've more or less reached the limits of our growth until we build more infrastructure. I think Fort Superiority will be the only base still popbooming next year. When running free market (or police state-green) for a while we could use the extra income to build up our infrastructure and then switch back to Demo-Planned for another popboom phase.

Originally posted by Zeiter
Hmmm, perhaps holding bases won't be possible without more fighters. So...when can we get more fighters? And if we decide to obliterate EM, do we then want to commit to a long-term struggle with the Data Angels, with the immediate military build up which that would entail? Or will we be satisfied with the blow we've done to them and resume our former course?

Some fighters are en route to the Angel front. We can always build more if we want.(?)
I'm fine with either a short blow or a long-term struggle. The Angel haven't suggested a truce though. But of course we haven't indicated any willingness to sign a truce ourselves, so for all they know we've invaded them to destroy them. Do we want to start peace talks?

Actually, if we switched to free market we'd have -3 police, precluding any nerve-stapling. But I suppose we could nerve staple before switching to FM, but like I said earlier

Indeed.

Originally posted by Zeiter
Edit: QFT?

Quoted for Truth!

Originally posted by Zeiter
Atrocities decrease the clean mineral threshhold, just as tree farms increase the clean mineral threshhold.

I believe that a nerve stapling will decrease the clean mineral count by 1. Something like a planet buster attack or an obliteration of a bases decreases the clean mineral count by 5, I think. So...if we are going to nerve staple all of our bases, we better get ready for some major mind worm attacks.

Planet busting indeed decreases the clean mineral limit by five.
Using nerve gas doesn't seem to have a direct effect on clean minerals. From the stories I've heard everything is fine for a long while. But suddenly when you cross 1000 years of sanctions due to nerve gas or something, Planet goes berzerk.
I haven't heard that base obliteration or nerve stapling pisses off Planet though. Not sure at all though.

[wuy3]

Originally posted by Zeiter
Hmmm, perhaps holding bases won't be possible without more fighters. So...when can we get more fighters? And if we decide to obliterate EM, do we then want to commit to a long-term struggle with the Data Angels, with the immediate military build up which that would entail? Or will we be satisfied with the blow we've done to them and resume our former course?

Originally posted by Maniac
Some fighters are en route to the Angel front. We can always build more if we want.(?)
I'm fine with either a short blow or a long-term struggle. The Angel haven't suggested a truce though. But of course we haven't indicated any willingness to sign a truce ourselves, so for all they know we've invaded them to destroy them. Do we want to start peace talks?

I say start getting the diplomacy ball rolling after we've taken engima machine (which I am for as well), even if we can't hold it. Just think of the moral damage done to both the Angles (and the other factions) with such a demonstration of force. The spartan federation as a world power that can take out your captial on a whim (well seemingly anways ).

Its not about your actual strength, but your percieved strength. This is especially true since we are not infiltrated currently (a key point). Thus we can go into the peace negotiations (which WILL happen eventually methinks) with quite a large amount of leverage and demand for some really good terms.

Hehe personally I'm hoping we can get them to submit and become a colonial power but thats just me and its prob not gonna be likely

[Maniac]

Originally posted by wuy3
Its not about your actual strength, but your percieved strength. This is especially true since we are not infiltrated currently (a key point).

Exactly! And personally I'm hoping we can keep it that way.

[Snoddasmannen]

LOOK AT THE SAVE
I am just lost for words.
The Angels have saved us a lot of trouble. I'm lost for words.

[Snoddasmannen]

It looks like the Angels have performed some major surgery to repel our invasion. They have accomplished our major goals with this operation.

Should we just pull our boys back now?