Covert Operations - General (2150 - 2174)

[Maniac]

They save some cash, and there's of course the global trade pact. Don't know if they'd accept. It of course all depends on how important they consider the Ascetic Virtues themselves. And if they'd be shrewd enough to think "They really want the AV so we can ask more."

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Maniac
They save some cash, and there's of course the global trade pact. Don't know if they'd accept. It of course all depends on how important they consider the Ascetic Virtues themselves. And if they'd be shrewd enough to think "They really want the AV so we can ask more."

Well, we know the answer to that, do we not? Showing it to them next turn... in a Spartan base.

I think we should propose it as is, and see what they answer.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Maniac


Are you sure? AFAIK there's some confusion about the exact effect of the Planetary Datalinks and the Angels tech infiltration ability. Some say a tech is only acquired if three parties gain it AFTER the PDL is built (or for the Angels infiltration is achieved). Meaning we wouldn't get neural grafting as the PKS, the Angels and the Gaians already have it. Though of course if they traded it to the Corporation after we built the PDL, we'd get it after all.

I believe that the #TECHS mechanism cycles only when we or another faction discover a fresh tech - thus we'll build the PDL, say, in 2171, and nothing happens until we research our next texh, say Plan Econ, in 2175. then the cycle recalculates in 2175 and we get any tech then held by 3 others.

The confusion, I think, arises 'cos if 3 others alrady hold Plan Econ, we don't get it thru the PDL. leading players to believe that they only get future techs via the PDL.

But in this case, if we get the PDL when we open the 2172 turn, and then get plan Econ that same year, the cycle runs and the game engine sees that we are missing NG, so will also give us that tech (That's why it's counter productive to change to Knowledge this year - if we wanted to - 'cos that would give us Plan econ the year before we got the PDL, so would need to wait for the next faction to get a tech before the cycle resets.)

Seeing the Angels might acquire Cyberethics soon anyway, and since (if the assumption hereabove about the PDL is true) it's not 100% sure we might get Neural Grafting immediately after building the PDL, how about we suggest the following deal to the Angels:

• We give them Cyberethics. (meaning the Angels don't have to give cash to the PKs to get it)
• They give us Neural Grafting.
• They allow us to build the Ascetic Virtues. (with their -1 Police SE it's not as useful for the Angels anyway)
• We promise to call the council to sign a global trade pact as soon as we research Planetary Economics (since the Angels are treatied or pacted with everyone on Chiron except Yang, they'd gain most from a global trade pact)

While i think I'm right, there's no harm in trying for a deal with the Angels.

We did, btw, agree not tobuild the AV in exchange for the whole Int int deal and their (and the Gaians, in exchange for their getting ecol eng) agreeing not to build the CDF

[Snoddasmannen]

We should do a simulation to see if Googlie is right. If so I see no reason to request NG in that trade, it just gives them a stronger bargaining position ...

Unless they're planning to build the AV I'm sure they'll agree to the trade outlined by Maniac minus giving us NG.

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
We should do a simulation to see if Googlie is right. If so I see no reason to request NG in that trade, it just gives them a stronger bargaining position ...

Trades proposed by Maniac:

Cyberethics <-> Neural Grafting
Council vote <-> Secret Project "rights"

Granted they can get Cyberethics anyway. But still, leaving Neural Grafting out, we would be the ones paying through the nose. I think it would be reasonable of them to ask for some credits in addition, if they do agree to leave the project to us. If we leave Neural Grafting out, they should pay us.

[Googlie]

Suggested post in the Angels-Spartan Embassy:

To our Friends, the Data Angels:

We note that you will shortly be obtaining Cyberethics, and likewise we will shortly be obtaining Neural Grafting.

Might we suggest a mutually beneficial trade between our 2 factions? Cyberethics for Neural Grafting?

And, as well, since we changed from Fundamentalism to Democracy we have lost some of the effectivenss of our garrison police units, and would like to revisit the agreement we had that we would desist from building the Ascetic Virtues SP.

In exchange for your agreeing to waive that prohibition, we would be willing to sponsor a Council motion on a Global Trade pact. This would greatly benefit the Data Angels due to your friendly relations with all other factions and your choice of Social Engineering settings.

Are the Data Angels interested in such an arrangement?

[Modo44]

Looks good.

[Googlie]

message posted in the Embassy

[Snoddasmannen]

I think I'm still confused. Why do we want to give something useful (Cyberethics) in exchange for something (NG) which we will be obtaining for free when we've built the PD?

[Modo44]

To sow confusion, maybe? The Angels would get Cyberethics soon anyway (from Lal). The real deal here is getting them to cede the "rights" to the Ascetic Virtues. We are not loosing much by the tech trade, so I see no problem there. I doubt they will take the deal, but if they do, we gain much more.

[Snoddasmannen]

To sow confusion? I don't see how we're confusing them much, or to what ends, I would like to see some kind of elaboration on that point

I don't think receiving Cyberethics right now is worthless to them, so it is a bargaining chip not to be thrown away on something which is worthless to us. I would sooner have seen us offer Cyberethics for the rights to build the AV, which as you say of course is the only important thing they can give us.

My guess is that such a deal would have been more likely to be accepted by the Angels.

EDIT: This is of course assuming that we receive NG on completion of the PD or shortly following that, which kind of makes sense from a lazy programmers perspective

[wuy3]

message looks good, but I don't think the DA's will bite the bait.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
(That's why it's counter productive to change to Knowledge this year - if we wanted to - 'cos that would give us Plan econ the year before we got the PDL, so would need to wait for the next faction to get a tech before the cycle resets.)

Don't we get Plan Econ in two years no matter whether we're running Knowledge or not?

[Googlie]

Ah, yes indeed. I had tinkered with the sliders to allocate more to research now that our commerce income is restored. (but reset them for the gamesave)

So .... do we want to change to knowledge this turn (+ 1 Efficiency, +2 Research but - 2 Probe)

Our Crypteia generally return to veteran status (with a couple of exceptions where they have run successful nissions and 1 is Commando and one Elite)

[Maniac]

Our probes have already lost their extra morale due to the switch away from Fundamentalism. So the only negative of going Knowledge would now be that our units are half as cheap to mind control. Which isn't that big of a drawback I think compared to the benefits.